Forthcoming Lists Discussion and Random Speculation Vol. 4

News on Criterion and Janus Films.
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Minkin
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Re: Forthcoming Lists Discussion and Random Speculation Vol.

#401 Post by Minkin » Thu Feb 16, 2012 7:20 pm

Was Putney Swope only added to make it a two disc Eclipse set? Why even bother? At least the HVE is still around..

I suppose Gold Rush was put on hold when they realized that they forgot the silent version...

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HistoryProf
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Re: Forthcoming Lists Discussion and Random Speculation Vol.

#402 Post by HistoryProf » Thu Feb 16, 2012 7:22 pm

*CG* wrote:Putney Swope is an Eclipse release when there is already a release with commentary?
this seems like a completely unnecessary set. should have just put the other films on a 2 disc mainline set and given them some extras - which i'm sure Downey would have gladly helped with. I have the PS DVD and it's fantastic as is...why would anyone *downgrade* to this? The most inexplicable Eclipse decision since the line was introduced.

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Jeff
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Re: Forthcoming Lists Discussion and Random Speculation Vol.

#403 Post by Jeff » Thu Feb 16, 2012 7:25 pm

Minkin wrote:I suppose Gold Rush was put on hold when they realized that they forgot the silent version...
Or, a worse and somewhat more likely scenario, the Chaplin Estate put the kibosh on their plans to include it.

Some of you don't know what "lie" means. It implies that Criterion intentionally deceived that guy on Facebook, which is a patently absurd notion. They hinted that some Chaplin was scheduled for release today, but it didn't pan out. Shit happens.

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knives
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Re: Forthcoming Lists Discussion and Random Speculation Vol.

#404 Post by knives » Thu Feb 16, 2012 7:29 pm

HistoryProf wrote:
*CG* wrote:Putney Swope is an Eclipse release when there is already a release with commentary?
this seems like a completely unnecessary set. should have just put the other films on a 2 disc mainline set and given them some extras - which i'm sure Downey would have gladly helped with. I have the PS DVD and it's fantastic as is...why would anyone *downgrade* to this? The most inexplicable Eclipse decision since the line was introduced.
As someone who never purchased the disc I'll gladly buy the eclipse set and I feel that this is more of a side shift then a downgrade, but I would have immensely preferred it get it's own mainline Blu and some other feature like Sweet Smell of Sex take it's place in this box.

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HerrSchreck
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Re: Forthcoming Lists Discussion and Random Speculation Vol.

#405 Post by HerrSchreck » Thu Feb 16, 2012 7:29 pm

Jeff wrote: Or, a worse and somewhat more likely scenario, the Chaplin Estate put the kibosh on their plans to include it.
That would suck-- it's my second favorite Chaplin (after CITY LIGHTS of course).

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bainbridgezu
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Re: Forthcoming Lists Discussion and Random Speculation Vol.

#406 Post by bainbridgezu » Thu Feb 16, 2012 7:30 pm

HistoryProf wrote:I have the PS DVD and it's fantastic as is...why would anyone *downgrade* to this? The most inexplicable Eclipse decision since the line was introduced.
I don't disagree with you, but it's sad to think that we can even entertain such a notion when the last Eclipse set brought us this marketing gem: "Hey, we've got Daisies! Great, let's bury it!"

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Jeff
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Re: Forthcoming Lists Discussion and Random Speculation Vol.

#407 Post by Jeff » Thu Feb 16, 2012 8:22 pm

A year ago, I would have said you were right on the money, David. And as I implied, I'm still somewhat concerned it might not come out on Blu-ray. They did, however, allow Janus to digitally restore the '25 version, strike new 35mm prints, and tour it nationally. That certainly seems to imply they've softened their stance. I won't believe it 100% until I'm holding it in my hands though.

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Drucker
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Re: Forthcoming Lists Discussion and Random Speculation Vol.

#408 Post by Drucker » Thu Feb 16, 2012 11:47 pm

I'm excited to see Certified Copy, as I've only seen parts of Close-Up and loved it. Otherwise, I'm not that into this month's titles (don't care that much for Malkovich and still am not a huge Bergman fan), so I could use a month off (especially considering how good April looks, MoC releases, Mizoguchi blu rays, Renoir blu rays, etc. etc. etc.)

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HistoryProf
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Re: Forthcoming Lists Discussion and Random Speculation Vol.

#409 Post by HistoryProf » Fri Feb 17, 2012 1:59 am

david hare wrote:You can bet your ass the Chaplin Estate has derailed any plan to headline the 25 Gold Rush as the major part of the disc in 1080p ...

As long as the same people run the Chaplin Estate you'll never get a decent reissue of this. Not to mention all the other cut and altered features, like Verdoux. They officially join the ranks of bastardry in company with Beatrice Welles and Mylene Bresson. And just as fucking greedy.
Why would they do this? What would inspire them from preventing Criterion from putting both versions out - and if they are as dead set against it in the first place, how could that have been the reason for the delay? Surely it was scuttled long ago if the Chaplin folks are against releasing the 25 version.

For those of us not up on our Chaplin scholarship, why are they averse to it?

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knives
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Re: Forthcoming Lists Discussion and Random Speculation Vol.

#410 Post by knives » Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:14 am

The same reason Lucas is averse to the theatrical releases of his (and other film makers) films.

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Tribe
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Re: Forthcoming Lists Discussion and Random Speculation Vol.

#411 Post by Tribe » Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:21 am

HistoryProf wrote: For those of us not up on our Chaplin scholarship, why are they averse to it?
If I recall correctly, it's based on some misguided loyalty to Chaplin's own vision who, in turn, believed he had "improved" The Gold Rush by adding his voice over commentary. But as someone pointed out above, if Criterion expended the resources to tour a new theatrical print of the original release, it seems hard to believe that version will not be eventually released.

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swo17
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Re: Forthcoming Lists Discussion and Random Speculation Vol.

#412 Post by swo17 » Fri Feb 17, 2012 3:06 am

Chaplin made changes to a lot of his films later in life and his estate considers the revised versions the definitive ones. For instance, the CC release of Modern Times only includes the revised version, though this didn't create much of an uproar since the changes there were more minor. The Gold Rush is the film he changed the most, sort of turning it into a talkie in the '40s. On the old WB release, the '40s version was the main feature and the original silent version was presented as an extra (and if I recall, in a less cleaned up transfer).

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ptatler
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Re: Forthcoming Lists Discussion and Random Speculation Vol.

#413 Post by ptatler » Fri Feb 17, 2012 7:21 am

I can't seem to locate it now but I thought that one of the originally announced directives for Eclipse was that they would only release films that hadn't had a prior R1 disc. In this case, PUTNEY SWOPE violates that rule. It's really odd that they didn't just include the HVE commentary and make this a 2-disc mainline. Is there an Eclipse quota they have to meet?

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Tribe
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Re: Forthcoming Lists Discussion and Random Speculation Vol.

#414 Post by Tribe » Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:56 am

ptatler wrote:I can't seem to locate it now but I thought that one of the originally announced directives for Eclipse was that they would only release films that hadn't had a prior R1 disc. In this case, PUTNEY SWOPE violates that rule. It's really odd that they didn't just include the HVE commentary and make this a 2-disc mainline. Is there an Eclipse quota they have to meet?
They've done it before with Basil Dearden's Victim, although no others come readily to mind.

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Gregory
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Re: Forthcoming Lists Discussion and Random Speculation Vol.

#415 Post by Gregory » Fri Feb 17, 2012 12:02 pm

I don't remember that directive, only that the series is to focus generally on neglected or overlooked films. Victim and three of the Czech New Wave titles had also had R1 releases previously. My only guess about why they didn't put P Swope in the main line is that the HVE didn't sell well enough to warrant that, and of course the DVD/Blu market is different now. Criterion seems to be playing their hands more cautiously in some ways now, such as with the number of blu upgrades. Or perhaps the 16mm films have not been preserved well enough to warrant their presentation in hi-def, or they didn't have access to hi-def masters. It seems like DVD-only mainline releases are more or less out of the question now, for better or worse.

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Feego
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Re: Forthcoming Lists Discussion and Random Speculation Vol.

#416 Post by Feego » Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:30 pm

Rembrandt from the Alexander Korda's Private Lives set also had an official MGM release.

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ptatler
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Re: Forthcoming Lists Discussion and Random Speculation Vol.

#417 Post by ptatler » Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:35 pm

Gregory wrote:... the HVE didn't sell well enough to warrant that, and of course the DVD/Blu market is different now.
Yeah but I bet a PUTNEY Blu would sell better than a MOMENT OF TRUTH or LETTER NEVER SENT (not to disparage those releases; I'm happy to have them). Perhaps it IS just an elements issue. Some of the Eclipse releases (like, say, THE DRUM) are pretty raggedy.

duck duck
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Re: Forthcoming Lists Discussion and Random Speculation Vol.

#418 Post by duck duck » Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:07 pm

Eclipse was alleged to be an every month thing that put out a set of films by director or other connection that were basically pretty far down on the Criterion list but they owned the rights to. Now it seems they are licensing things just to be an Eclipse set.

What did Mylene Bresson do?
I know about Wells and Chaplin. I don't get the Chaplin thing because from all I've read he loved attention, so he would surely love a big Blu special edition of his films....or am I supposing too much.

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HistoryProf
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Re: Forthcoming Lists Discussion and Random Speculation Vol.

#419 Post by HistoryProf » Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:34 pm

Gregory wrote: My only guess about why they didn't put P Swope in the main line is that the HVE didn't sell well enough to warrant that....
Except that putting it in the mainline as a BLU RAY is the ONE reason i would actually rebuy the thing as an owner of the HVE release. And again, clearly Downey isn't averse to talking about his work, and PS seems particularly ripe for contextual supplements in addition to the commentary. I just don't see why they couldn't do Swope as one # and the others on a 2 disc main line release w/ another spine # a la Brakhage and Frampton.

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SamLowry
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Re: Forthcoming Lists Discussion and Random Speculation Vol.

#420 Post by SamLowry » Sat Feb 18, 2012 12:55 am

Dark Past: Film Noir by German Emigrés is presented as a complement to a noir course taught by Professor Tony Kaes this spring at UC Berkeley. Special thanks to Steven Hill, the UCLA Film and Television Archive; Eddie Muller, The Film Noir Foundation; Rob Stone, The Library of Congress, Motion Picture Division; The Film Foundation; and the distributors that still support 35mm prints: Paramount Pictures, Sony Pictures, Universal Pictures, and Criterion Pictures.
Well looking over all the new prints being used for this series, I was quite excited & was almost certain Criterion would be providing the print for Caught.....but instead it turned out to be

Where The Sidewalk Ends:
• Written by Ben Hecht, based on the novel Night Cry by William L. Stuart. Photographed by Joseph LaShelle. With Dana Andrews, Gene Tierney, Gary Merrill, Karl Malden. (95 mins, B&W, 35mm, From Criterion Pictures)
Since this is a Preminger film, I thought it might be Criterion (missed twofer opportunity w/ Anatomy of a Murder?)....but on closer inspection it is credited to Criterion Pictures, which looks to be a distribution company based in Canada, however this a Fox film. Would Fox give its prints to some Canadian distribution company? or did the PFA screw up the credit?

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knives
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Re: Forthcoming Lists Discussion and Random Speculation Vol.

#421 Post by knives » Sat Feb 18, 2012 12:56 am

Criterion Pictures is Fox.

stroszeck
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Re: Forthcoming Lists Discussion and Random Speculation Vol.

#422 Post by stroszeck » Sat Feb 18, 2012 6:17 am

Has anyone heard anything about TOTO THE HERO (1991)? There was some inquiries about the rights and interest on another forum a couple years back.

cdobbs
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Re: Forthcoming Lists Discussion and Random Speculation Vol.

#423 Post by cdobbs » Sat Feb 18, 2012 12:37 pm

I suspect that since there was likely no chance of the other Downey/Czech New Wave films in those sets making it to the mainline, they just decided it was preferable to use Putney Swope and Daisies as possible sales hooks for Eclipse rather than give them their own release.

Flike
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Re: Forthcoming Lists Discussion and Random Speculation Vol.

#424 Post by Flike » Sat Feb 18, 2012 12:41 pm

The issues with Gold Rush seem plausible, I just don't understand how they could arise right as they're preparing their announcements.

Between the pulled Chaplin and what's clearly placeholder Being John Malkovich art, Criterion seemed strangely unprepared for announcement day.

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Drucker
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Re: Forthcoming Lists Discussion and Random Speculation Vol.

#425 Post by Drucker » Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:07 pm

I have no idea how large Criterion's operation is, and I've only been an avid fan for about a year now, but if you look back to older posts in this forum, it seems that it wasn't too crazy to expect a release to be delayed-it certainly happens with MoC. This isn't Sony or WB...this is still a relatively small, independent label, and certainly shit comes up. I'd also say that they probably didn't expect their entire website to crash and considering the volume of units they just moved in the sale, certainly they were busy with other things!

While I won't defend some of this month's artwork or supplements... I don't rule out that what we see may not be the final product!

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