18 Passenger

Discuss DVDs and Blu-rays released by Second Run and the films on them.
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GaryC
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2008 3:56 pm
Location: Aldershot, Hampshire, UK

#76 Post by GaryC » Fri Mar 28, 2008 4:09 pm

For the record, I own a 2.35:1 VHS (NTSC) copy of Passenger, released by Hen's Teeth Video and bought off Amazon.com several years ago. Incidentally, this is an English version of the film - narration and voiceover are in English while on-screen dialogue is in Polish and subtitled. Incidentally, the female voiceover in this version is credited to the late Vanda Jones, who will be remembered by long-time attendees at the National Film Theatre as she did front of house there for many years.

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Person
Joined: Sat May 19, 2007 3:00 pm

Re: 18 Passenger

#77 Post by Person » Thu Jan 29, 2009 3:48 pm

This new French DVD seems to be in 2.35:1. but it also seems to mention an additional 1.77:1 transfer. Someone fluent in French will hopefully clear this up.

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Saturnome
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 5:22 pm

Re: 18 Passenger

#78 Post by Saturnome » Thu Jan 29, 2009 4:46 pm

The review says that for some reasons the DVD includes a french subtitled unrestored 1.77:1 transfer. The 2.35:1 transfer is restored, subtitled during the film parts and dubbed in french for the still parts. Very weird.
Last edited by Saturnome on Thu Jan 29, 2009 4:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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MichaelB
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Re: 18 Passenger

#79 Post by MichaelB » Thu Jan 29, 2009 4:47 pm

I'm far from fluent, but this is my translation of the salient bits:
FRENCH VERSION

This is in French (voiceover) and the original language subtitled in French (dialogue). The subtitles, burned into the image, are from the period, and therefore different from current standards. This is the version that we have restored, because it seemed to us to be stronger and more accessible, of a technical quality that provided a superior basis from which to work, and in the original aspect ratio (2.35:1)

ORIGINAL VERSION

The quality of the image is inferior to the French version, and has not been restored (aspect ratio 1.77:1).
In other words, if you want it in 2.35:1, you'll have to put up with burned-in French subtitles. But if that's the best option, that's the best option - and when/if the Euro collapses I might well give it a punt.
Saturnome wrote:The review says that for some reasons the DVD includes a subtitled unrestored 1.77:1 transfer. The 2.35:1 transfer is restored, subtitled during the film parts and in french for the still parts. Very weird.
Not weird at all - it's pretty obvious to me that the only 2.35:1 print they could get their hands on was an original French release print with burned-in French subtitles and French voiceover. Presumably the 1.77:1 version is the same Polish master as was supplied to Second Run, only with optional French subtitles this time.

The essential problem is that no-one knows the whereabouts of materials with which to create a 2.35:1-format unsubtitled version of the film as the basis for a DVD in the OAR with electronic subtitles. The Poles don't seem to have anything, and if they don't, it's hard to think who else does.

rs98762001
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2005 6:04 pm

Re: 18 Passenger

#80 Post by rs98762001 » Thu Jan 29, 2009 6:10 pm

MichaelB wrote: ...it's pretty obvious to me that the only 2.35:1 print they could get their hands on was an original French release print with burned-in French subtitles and French voiceover. Presumably the 1.77:1 version is the same Polish master as was supplied to Second Run, only with optional French subtitles this time.

The essential problem is that no-one knows the whereabouts of materials with which to create a 2.35:1-format unsubtitled version of the film as the basis for a DVD in the OAR with electronic subtitles. The Poles don't seem to have anything, and if they don't, it's hard to think who else does.
Wasn't that the reason Second Run gave for using the inferior 1.77:1 print in the first place? That there didn't exist a 2.35:1 version without burnt-in subs? Although of course I remember at the time many saying they would prefer the compromise of burnt-in subs to the wrong aspect ratio.

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MichaelB
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Re: 18 Passenger

#81 Post by MichaelB » Thu Jan 29, 2009 6:31 pm

rs98762001 wrote:Wasn't that the reason Second Run gave for using the inferior 1.77:1 print in the first place? That there didn't exist a 2.35:1 version without burnt-in subs?
That's exactly the situation, and it still appears to be the situation.

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Peacock
Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2008 7:47 pm
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Re: 18 Passenger

#82 Post by Peacock » Thu Jan 29, 2009 6:47 pm

what's the feasibilty of a dvd company using a transfer with burnt in subs, and then placing a black bar on top of them with new subs on top? It means you miss a tiny bit of the picture but surely it's better than losing the sides - as in The Passenger case?

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MichaelB
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Re: 18 Passenger

#83 Post by MichaelB » Thu Jan 29, 2009 6:51 pm

Well, it depends on what sort of physical condition the print is in too. Presumably any English-subbed prints of Passenger will be of the same vintage as that print of The Round-Up that was screened at Second Run's Jancso event - which really wasn't bad for its age, but in no way was it suitable for a DVD transfer.

razumovsky
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 3:52 pm

Re: 18 Passenger

#84 Post by razumovsky » Wed Jun 01, 2011 5:16 am

The English National Opera is staging a version of The Passenger later this year: http://www.eno.org/see-whats-on/product ... temid=1657" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. The opera, by Mieczysław Weinberg, apparently dates from 1968. I don't know anything about the opera, or its relation to Munk's film, but the production seems to have been well-received when presented at Bregenz last year (http://opera-cake.blogspot.com/2010/08/ ... r-you.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;). Lots of cheap tickets still available, so it must be worth a punt.

admira
Joined: Fri Nov 13, 2009 4:33 pm

Re: 18 Passenger

#85 Post by admira » Wed Jun 01, 2011 2:53 pm

There is also czech DVD version in its original aspect ratio, that was in czech movie distribution for 35 years.

LINK

Screen Shots

admira
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Re: 18 Passenger

#86 Post by admira » Thu Jun 02, 2011 3:49 pm

shouldn't forget japanese release:

LINK

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Peacock
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Re: 18 Passenger

#87 Post by Peacock » Thu Aug 04, 2011 10:29 am

MichaelB wrote:Well, it depends on what sort of physical condition the print is in too. Presumably any English-subbed prints of Passenger will be of the same vintage as that print of The Round-Up that was screened at Second Run's Jancso event - which really wasn't bad for its age, but in no way was it suitable for a DVD transfer.
Apologies, just noticed this; I didn't make myself clear; I meant: Why doesn't Second Run or another company use the 2:35:1 master with FRENCH burnt in subtitles. Then simply offer a removable english subtitle track with a black box underneath (like in some older subtitled releases), placed over the french subs. This way you are getting much more of the original image - sure you are losing a bit thanks to the black box - but I'd say that's better that losing the Scope frame. And of course... as the english subtitles and box would be removable, if you want to rewatch without the box, then you just turn them off (making the French subs visible)

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GaryC
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Re: 18 Passenger

#88 Post by GaryC » Thu Aug 04, 2011 3:31 pm

Admittedly it's VHS, and it has burned-in English subtitles, but I wonder what Hen's Teeth (see my post above) mastered their edition from?

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MichaelB
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Re: 18 Passenger

#89 Post by MichaelB » Thu Aug 04, 2011 6:13 pm

More to the point, I wonder what was screened at last week's complete Andrzej Munk retrospective in Wrocław?

There have been a great many Polish films remastered of late, including Munk's Eroica (unrecognisable from the old Polart/Best Film Co DVDs, and I hope Second Run manages to get their hands on this new version, as I know they're still keen to release it), but Passenger hasn't appeared on any lists that I've seen. It's out on DVD in Poland, but the rock-bottom price suggests that it's no great shakes - in fact, it's probably the same master as the Second Run, but without subtitles.

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