14 The Red and the White

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Bikey · #26 Post by **Bikey** » Tue Apr 11, 2006 1:31 pm

Thanks for all the words of encouragement folks. It is appreciated.

solent · #27 Post by **solent** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 1:12 am

The only problem I noticed, accepting the limitations of the visual print mentioned before, is with the audio. I assume the source print is to blame but I find the continual wavering between muffled sound and clear crisp sound a little jarring. [The sound is at its worst when the nurse kisses the Red outside and says 'You don't have to say you love me" etc.]

This wavering isn't too frequent thank goodness and the film is so intense one doesn't have time to worry about it. I still prefer the film before this and the one after. Both of them have less relentless killing and more focus on character. I'd love to see the film before THE ROUND-UP called MY WAY HOME.

I watched THE Canadian SILENCE & CRY again and noticed two instances of volume inbalance so I assume it's all to do with source materials.

tryavna · #28 Post by **tryavna** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 3:13 pm

solent wrote:I still prefer the film before this and the one after. Both of them have less relentless killing and more focus on character. I'd love to see the film before THE ROUND-UP called MY WAY HOME.

I watched THE Canadian SILENCE & CRY again and noticed two instances of volume inbalance so I assume it's all to do with source materials.

Clavis, a French DVD company, will be releasing MY WAY HOME (in addition to other Jancso films) some time soon. I can't read French, but here is the link. This probably isn't the most appropriate place to begin a discussion of the Clavis releases, but I'd love to know what the quality of them is and whether or not they have English subtitles.

brunosh · #29 Post by **brunosh** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 8:34 pm

The Clavis Jancso DVDs are listed on alapage and (cheaper at their special new release pricing, ignoring postage) on Fnac as out now, and show French and English subtitles. No indication of aspect ratios, let alone quality. It would be nice to know whether The Round Up, Silence and Cry, My Way Home and Red Psalm are expected from Second Run...

Bikey · #30 Post by **Bikey** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 9:50 am

It would be nice to know whether The Round Up, Silence and Cry, My Way Home and Red Psalm are expected from Second Run...

I can confirm that both The Round Up and My Way Home will be released by us at some time in 2006. Dates are still very much tbc.

skuhn8 · #31 Post by **skuhn8** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 9:57 am

Bikey wrote:
It would be nice to know whether The Round Up, Silence and Cry, My Way Home and Red Psalm are expected from Second Run...
I can confirm that both The Round Up and My Way Home will be released by us at some time in 2006. Dates are still very much tbc.

Why can't Mulvaney be helpful like this?! Seriously.

brunosh · #32 Post by **brunosh** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 11:06 am

Bikey wrote:
It would be nice to know whether The Round Up, Silence and Cry, My Way Home and Red Psalm are expected from Second Run...
I can confirm that both The Round Up and My Way Home will be released by us at some time in 2006. Dates are still very much tbc.

Very much appreciated, bikey. Those two are my favourites, and I will wait for yours.

Don Lope de Aguirre · #33 Post by **Don Lope de Aguirre** » Thu May 04, 2006 2:50 pm

there were no reviews in french or english i could find but the word on the street is mixed:

http://www.dvdclassik.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=21086&

i ordered four dvds from FNAC, they should be arriving tomorrow. i'll report my findings in a new thread, out of respect to my friends at Second Run 8-)

i was wondering what people made of 'messages of stones'...maybe i missed something but i was really bored (the red & the white was great though!)

alfons416 · #34 Post by **alfons416** » Tue Aug 15, 2006 10:27 am

Saw my way home yesterday and it was fantastic!

therefore i wanted to buy clavis DVD, but now i see Bikey promising a Second Run DVD in 2006, and since i own Red and white on SR it would be nice with My way home to, maybee we can expect som extras there to?

is it still a plan to release this movie in 2006?

Bikey · #35 Post by **Bikey** » Tue Jan 09, 2007 7:09 pm

We were delighted to see that Philip French featured the Red and the White as one of his DVDs That You Might Have Missed in 2006 in the 31 Dec edition of the Observer:

"Forty years ago few directors were more highly regarded than ... Jancso, who cleverly manipulated the constraints (ideological, sexual, formal) that dominated Eastern European cinema.."

He goes on to talk about The Round Up " which I greeted as an masterpiece in the Observer 40 years ago, an opinion I have seen no reason to revise."

MichaelB · #36 Post by **MichaelB** » Tue Jan 09, 2007 7:18 pm

Here's a link.

To be fair, it wasn't released to quite the "resounding silence" that he implies - I reviewed it for Sight & Sound at the time.

True, it wasn't an especially long review, but in this particular case that's because the same issue ran a much bigger feature on The Cremator, which my editor thought would have more appeal (almost certainly correctly).

#37 Post by **Matt** » Sun Mar 25, 2007 1:13 am

I finally got around to watching this disc tonight. The image goes crazy with combing during horizontal movement in certain shots but not at all in others. I'm watching on a Malata 520 on an RCA tube set, input via S-video. I've never seen anything this bad before, except maybe the New Yorker DVD of Beau Travail. Do I have a bad disc or have I just experienced some sort of perfect storm of interlacing?

HerrSchreck · #38 Post by **HerrSchreck** » Sun Mar 25, 2007 3:35 am

Worse than the Image BERLIN or the Milestone PHANTOM OPERA? I thought those set records.

#39 Post by **Matt** » Sun Mar 25, 2007 2:31 pm

HerrSchreck wrote:Worse than the Image BERLIN or the Milestone PHANTOM OPERA? I thought those set records.

Possibly, but I haven't seen them.

What A Disgrace · #40 Post by **What A Disgrace** » Sun Mar 25, 2007 3:40 pm

It happens on my disc, too.

I'm glad I own it, I love the film and the supplementary material, but...I would like Bikey to say something about it. I've never seen such awful combing.

Nothing · #41 Post by **Nothing** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 11:09 pm

The Second Run disc is awful, even worse than the Kino, which makes this release entirely pointless. As Bikey admits they "used the master" they were given, rather than doing a proper job ala Masters of Cinema / Criterion. Anyone who has seen this film projected on 35mm will know that the original certainly does not look this way. Are Criterion ever going to take on Jancso? Sigh...

peerpee · #42 Post by **peerpee** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 11:37 pm

re: the combing previous posters mention. It's only in some shots, and it is odd.

The disc is anamorphic, the picture is soft, but it's not interlaced. The optional English subtitles are infinitely better than Kino's horrible ingrained script font.

thirtyframesasecond · #43 Post by **thirtyframesasecond** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 5:14 am

Another great film restored and distributed to Second Run. Well done again!

Very cool and dispassionate and free of bias; clearly not what the authorities wanted to mark the 50th anniversary of the Russian Revolution. Given the nature of the relationship between the two countries, what with the '56 Revolution still in the memory, it's hardly surprising that Jancso never delivered a pro-Soviet film.

It's interesting how he depersonalises everything; the Reds and Whites are largely undistinguishable (certainly in b&w), there's little characterisation, little analysis of motives, ideology, etc - just a portrayal of how futile it all is, characterised by that distanced shot at the end of the two armies marching towards one another. Jancso just depicts events; he never explains them or empathises with the characters. Plus, he shows both sides as merciless and capable of atrocities.

I think the film works with this approach. Hope to see more of his work.

Felix · #44 Post by **Felix** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 1:10 pm

Here is an interesting one;

My wife is currently learning Hungarian and I gave her the Kino version of The Red and White to watch and to my surprise she tells me that they are definitely not speaking Hungarian throughout the film, and that much of it is, presumably, Russian... She is quite adamant about this so I was wondering if anyone here can confirm or is she blethering? I presume the Second Run version definitely is in Hungarian.

Skritek · #45 Post by **Skritek** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 2:08 pm

They mostly speak Russian in the film, only when the Hungarians are among themselves, they start speaking Hungarian. (it's the same on the Second Run DVD) This shouldn't be surprising since the film takes place in Russia.

Felix · #46 Post by **Felix** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 3:12 pm

Skritek wrote:They mostly speak Russian in the film, only when the Hungarians are among themselves, they start speaking Hungarian. (it's the same on the Second Run DVD) This shouldn't be surprising since the film takes place in Russia.

Thanks Skritek. That was whys eh assumed it was Russian but I guess we just automatically assumed they would all be in Hungarian, she says the majority of it is Russian. And now she is finished the Second Run the only other thing I have to offer her is Bela Tarr and not a lot of talk there either...

Mel · #47 Post by **Mel** » Fri Mar 20, 2015 5:37 am

This is my first post on this forum (I am a reader for many years). I just watched this film for the second time and I just want to express my gratitude to Second Run for releasing this amazing film (and many others). To me, what is most striking about the Red and the White, is the natural way the scenes unfold. It never feels staged, as if you are watching a documentary. The long takes are used to esthablish that effect. The randomness of the violence and the two different camps that are interchangable, in my view, give the madness of war a realistic face. There are no heroes or bad guys, just victims of war. A masterpiece in my opinion. It's great to have this movie on dvd. It's just a shame the elements are not up to par to release a Blu-Ray. It's a sad realisation that many great movies will never see the light of day on Blu-Ray. But again, it's truly great a company like Second Run will take the effort to release these movies in the first place.

#48 Post by **swo17** » Fri Mar 20, 2015 11:01 am

In case you weren't aware, there's actually an English-friendly Hungarian release with improved picture quality over the Second Run DVD. Still nowhere near Blu-ray quality, but it's a noticeable improvement, and you also get the Soviet cut plus a contemporaneous making-of doc (featuring Jancsó in a speedo!) In general, MaNDA is a great label for Hungarian film.

Mel · #49 Post by **Mel** » Fri Mar 20, 2015 11:16 am

I was not aware of that release. Allthough Jancsó in a speedo sounds tempting, I'll stick with the Second Run disk. But I certainly check MaNDA out for other Hungarion releases. Thank you for pointing me in that direction.

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