"Fuck you, I got your film for nothing, cumstain."

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PhilipS
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 3:41 am

#201 Post by PhilipS » Fri May 25, 2007 4:36 am

I hope you get caught. If nothing else you might learn something along the lines of two wrongs not making a right.

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Gregory
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 4:07 pm

#202 Post by Gregory » Fri May 25, 2007 7:00 am

You didn't ask about this but you may want to re-think your 50 year rule, which I think if more people adopted would discourage film restoration.
So, are my actions forgivable? I await your judgement.
I don't think this happens there but in the United States retailers who sell bootlegs risk losing all the merchandise if the police raid them. This is not extremely common but I have seen it happen, and the stores that it happened to changed their policy on what they'll sell. An individual swiping them of course isn't the same thing, but one could make a case that it doesn't do a whole lot of harm. However, it really would be better to save up and buy actual legitimate Second Run and MoC titles, but maybe you can't get them where you are. Generally, though, they need the support, and I personally would not want to own a shoddy imitation that used those companies' good names, even if I got the thing for nothing.
Another small thing wrong with it is that it's imprudent. If you find it nerve-wracking then you probably show some signs of nervousness and thus are more likely to be seen.

Anyway, this question reminds me of what Sue Mingus wrote at the end of Tonight at Noon about stealing bootleg Charles Mingus albums. She went into music stores and would walk out with stacks of them, and usually no one noticed or said a word to try to stop her. Finally, she was caught and when the store manager yelled at her and said he was going to call the police, she encouraged him to do so and said that she would hold a press conference and use the arrest to bring attention to the issue of music stores selling heaps of pirated recordings. They started to listen to her point of view and ended up letting her take all the Mingus bootlegs, many of which she ended up later releasing as authorized albums on her Revenge label.

robotjox
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2007 7:20 am

#203 Post by robotjox » Sun Sep 16, 2007 11:12 am

peerpee wrote:If any kindly Swedish forum members would like to grass up the names and addresses of the people behind the sites, I would like to offer a selection of MoC DVDs as a reward.
peerpee wrote:I have no qualms about anything I've said
peerpee wrote:Haha! -- Wow, thanks for the free reign for me to be reactionary, you've really been exceedingly generous. Re: my comments no longer being excusable -- haha!
peerpee wrote:Haha! Such tripe! You're digging a massive hole for yourself.
I'm new to this forum, and I've found a lot of great and informative threads. A really great place to hang out and discuss film. Then I stumbled upon this thread and I was saddened and shocked :shock: I love MoC, and I have most of your releases, but the attitude and use of words brought forward by you, Nick, through this thread has really put some dents in my admiration. I'm not talking about your problems with file-sharing - I have my own feelings about that subject. But to offer your masterpieces as rewards for informing on people and your offensive way of addressing people who disagree with you comes across as really counter-productive and even hateful. I would never have thought this possible from such a well-respected company.

I will probably continue to buy MoC-releases, but I'm really sorry that they'll shine just a little less bright on my shelves :(

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Don Lope de Aguirre
Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2006 5:39 pm
Location: London

#204 Post by Don Lope de Aguirre » Sun Sep 16, 2007 11:31 am

robotjox wrote:But to offer your masterpieces as rewards for informing on people and your offensive way of addressing people who disagree with you comes across as really counter-productive and even hateful. I would never have thought this possible from such a well-respected company.

I will probably continue to buy MoC-releases, but I'm really sorry that they'll shine just a little less bright on my shelves
Are you American by any chance?

robotjox
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2007 7:20 am

#205 Post by robotjox » Sun Sep 16, 2007 11:37 am

Don Lope de Aguirre wrote:Are you American by any chance?
No, I'm Danish - why?

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skuhn8
wax on; wax off
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2004 4:46 pm
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#206 Post by skuhn8 » Sun Sep 16, 2007 11:43 am

Yeah, we've all come to the conclusion that Nick is kind of a dick when it comes to people stealing from his livelihood. Go figure.

robotjox
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2007 7:20 am

#207 Post by robotjox » Sun Sep 16, 2007 11:54 am

skuhn8 wrote:Yeah, we've all come to the conclusion that Nick is kind of a dick when it comes to people stealing from his livelihood. Go figure.
Yeah, well I don't think the people he insulted in this thread were the people who pirated - actually most of them sound like they are MoC customers, and putting bounties out on software pirates is just not the kind of behaviour I would expect from a classy firm like MoC - maybe from RIAA or the MPAA. But maybe they'll arrest a couple of pimple-faced teens and MoC sales will soar again...

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Luke M
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 9:21 pm

#208 Post by Luke M » Sun Sep 16, 2007 1:37 pm

I can certainly understand why Nick is so upset. MoC isn't a huge studio like Criterion, and I use "huge" in jest. Even though I also feel that downloads for a title like Abhijan or Funeral Parade of Roses are going to be negligible at best.

akaten

#209 Post by akaten » Sun Sep 16, 2007 5:44 pm

Luke M wrote:I can certainly understand why Nick is so upset. MoC isn't a huge studio like Criterion, and I use "huge" in jest. Even though I also feel that downloads for a title like Abhijan or Funeral Parade of Roses are going to be negligible at best.
But presumably with these two not having sold as well as other MoC titles, those few downloads still have a significant detrimental impact on their success.

Anyways having just read through the thread (some really bizarre arguments suggesting the ends justifies the means) I thought peerpee was justified in his anger and disbelief in being insulted for pointing out the obvious. That is, the undeniable impact theft has on the ability of Master of Cinema to release more films, the very films file sharers are claiming to support. Whether or not he wishes to encourage people to help stop this occurring is entirely up to him, and of course withing his rights.

Heck he even took the time to clarify the issue of Region rights regarding sales of DVDs from one region to another, that consumers can decide which product to buy. This seemed to me to outline MoC desire to be judged solely on the quality of their product in a competitive market...all the more reason to support them with your funds. They deserve it! =D>

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125100
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 10:07 pm
Location: UK

#210 Post by 125100 » Sun Sep 16, 2007 6:41 pm

Luke M wrote:I can certainly understand why Nick is so upset. MoC isn't a huge studio like Criterion, and I use "huge" in jest. Even though I also feel that downloads for a title like Abhijan or Funeral Parade of Roses are going to be negligible at best.
Actually, I'd say the opposite. Things like Metropolis and Nosferatu are important films and people are likely to buy the MoC releases because it's definitive and essential to a DVD collection. Also editions by people like Kino have already been out for a while so people aren't as likely to download these as they've already seen them before (whether that be legally or not)

Abhijan on the other hand, while undoubtedly very good, isn't renowned or particularly important in the history of cinema. It's films like this that people are likely to download because while they may want to see it out of curiosity they don't particularly want to own it or would just rather spend their money on other DVDs.

Saying that I must admit although I'm yet to see Abhijan if I do it'll probably be a copy I suspect my friend downloaded from the net and burnt to CD.
Last edited by 125100 on Sun Sep 16, 2007 6:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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MichaelB
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:20 pm
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#211 Post by MichaelB » Sun Sep 16, 2007 6:46 pm

125100 wrote:Saying that I must admit I'm yet to see Abhijan, although If I do it'll probably be a copy I suspect my friend downloaded from the net and burnt to CD.
And maybe this comment alone might explain to the likes of Robotjox just why Nick hasn't been in any mood to compromise. Why should he, when you're making it so clear that you place such little value on his work?

If you really can't resist the urge to rip people off, at the very least can you have the decency not to crow about it in public? Especially given that this thread is being read by the producer of the DVD in question?

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125100
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 10:07 pm
Location: UK

#212 Post by 125100 » Sun Sep 16, 2007 7:21 pm

MichaelB wrote:...about which your conscience appears to be so clear that you're happy to mention this in a forum that will be read by the producer of the DVD in question.

And maybe this comment alone might explain to the likes of Robotjox just why Nick hasn't been in any mood to compromise. Why should he, when you're making it clear that you place such little value on his work?
Ooh harsh, I was merely stating that I know my friend has a copy of Abhijan, and since Criterion don't look to be releasing it, I have thought about borrowing it. It was merely to illustrate my point that people shouldn't dismiss the downloads of poor selling DVDs as negligible.

I've never actually watched a pirated film before and I am quite an obsessive DVD collector but piracy doesn't bother me at all. I've just made the transition from writing scripts/storylines for video games to selling my first proper screenplay and I know that's going to get hammered by piracy but it's a fact of life.

Piracy isn't a good thing but it's there and there's nothing anyone can do about it. You either adapt to combat it (like the music/video games industries) or you just make allowances for it when looking at the viability of a project. I sympathize with MoC but if they go under or can't release certain things it's not just because of piracy.

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blindside8zao
Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2005 4:31 pm
Location: Greensboro, NC

#213 Post by blindside8zao » Sun Sep 16, 2007 7:42 pm

peerpee, could you please burn me a copy of the savage innocents? I can send you a check in the mail.

bluesea
Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2006 11:41 am

#214 Post by bluesea » Sun Sep 16, 2007 8:44 pm

robotjox wrote:I love MoC, and I have most of your releases, but the attitude and use of words brought forward by you, Nick, through this thread has really put some dents in my admiration. I'm not talking about your problems with file-sharing - I have my own feelings about that subject. But to offer your masterpieces as rewards for informing on people and your offensive way of addressing people who disagree with you comes across as really counter-productive and even hateful. I would never have thought this possible from such a well-respected company.

I will probably continue to buy MoC-releases, but I'm really sorry that they'll shine just a little less bright on my shelves
I think a lot of what you are saying is self evident, and therefore this thread really did not need to be revived. Its been 2 cents to death already.

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Luke M
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 9:21 pm

#215 Post by Luke M » Sun Sep 16, 2007 9:49 pm

akaten wrote:Heck he even took the time to clarify the issue of Region rights regarding sales of DVDs from one region to another, that consumers can decide which product to buy. This seemed to me to outline MoC desire to be judged solely on the quality of their product in a competitive market.
I was just thinking about this, if I download a copy of Pitfall or the Face of Another aren't I hurting Criterion and not MoC? What about Punishment Park or Sunrise?

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jt
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 9:47 am
Location: zurich

#216 Post by jt » Mon Sep 17, 2007 8:47 am

Jesus, can we let this thread die?
Unless the laws around piracy and copywrited material suddenly change, there's really nothing left to say on this topic is there?
Some people are always going to download films and come up with tired, self-serving arguments that they're not doing anyone any harm.

As Michael pointed out, if people really need to rip off MoC/ CC et all, could they try to avoid showing off about it, especially to the owner of the company they're screwing?

And for a newbie poster to introduce himself to the forum by resurrecting an embarrassing argument for the purpose of taking a pot-shot at one of our most respected members, seems to me like the most ill-thought-out first-post ever.

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Lino
"Without obsession, life is nothing"
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 6:18 am
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#217 Post by Lino » Mon Sep 17, 2007 9:16 am

I tried to stay away from this thread as best as I could but I'm really in the mood to spill the beans today, so here it goes.

I once tried to trade my Complete Joao Cesar Monteiro boxset with Nick/peerpee but he said someone already gave him copies of all the movies in that box.

Make your own conclusions.

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MichaelB
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:20 pm
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#218 Post by MichaelB » Mon Sep 17, 2007 9:29 am

Lino wrote:Make your own conclusions.
Well, I have a shelf full of Polish DVD-Rs, which to the untrained eye look like blatant pirate copies, what with their handwritten labels and the fact that one or two are clones of Polish DVD releases. Actually, come to think of it, I also have a fair number of DVD-Rs of MoC and Second Run releases.

But in every case they were given to me by the legitimate UK rightsholders for professional reasons - they wanted me to review/promote them.

And there's therefore every possibility that someone in Nick's position might have been given copies by another legitimate rightsholder with a view to trying to persuade him to add Monteiro to the MoC line-up - wouldn't you agree?

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Steven H
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 3:30 pm
Location: NC

#219 Post by Steven H » Mon Sep 17, 2007 10:00 am

Lino wrote:Make your own conclusions.
My conclusion: this thread should be closed
Last edited by Steven H on Mon Sep 17, 2007 10:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Tommaso
Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 10:09 am

#220 Post by Tommaso » Mon Sep 17, 2007 10:22 am

Precisely.

stroszeck
Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2005 10:42 pm

Re: Viewing classic movies on the web

#221 Post by stroszeck » Thu Dec 02, 2010 1:56 am

Story of the Late Chrysantemums and other Ozu, Mizoguchi and Teshigahara and even Fellini's THE SWINDLE...movie names have cleverly been "altered" so as not to incur the wrath of youtube copyrighters

Perkins Cobb
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 12:49 pm

Re: Viewing classic movies on the web

#222 Post by Perkins Cobb » Thu Dec 02, 2010 5:11 pm

And I hope the dirtbag gets shut down post-haste. I wish I had time to report the copyright violations myself.

stroszeck
Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2005 10:42 pm

Re: Viewing classic movies on the web

#223 Post by stroszeck » Fri Dec 03, 2010 3:24 pm

Whoa....why so negative? This is so far the only way I know of to get instant access to these films and actually the quality is decent compared to even some foreign import DVDs. So I actually appreciate the effort some people take to get these films at least out there. Hopefully if more people watch them then it will garner attention to the holders of the copyright who will at least consider releasing these films in semi-decent form!

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knives
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:49 pm

Re: Viewing classic movies on the web

#224 Post by knives » Fri Dec 03, 2010 3:34 pm

Late Chrysanthemums is available in great condition from BFI. Hell some of these come with Criterion logos on the front. I wouldn't be surprised if they were all DVD sourced.

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ambrose
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2010 2:16 pm
Location: Durham United-kingdom

Re: Viewing classic movies on the web

#225 Post by ambrose » Fri Dec 03, 2010 3:45 pm

knives wrote:Late Chrysanthemums is available in great condition from BFI. Hell some of these come with Criterion logos on the front. I wouldn't be surprised if they were all DVD sourced.
The Late Chrysanthemums that is available from the BFI on dvd is the Naruse Mikio classic! The Story of the Late Chrysanthemums (Mizoguchi) on that you-tube channel is of sub-vhs quality and is literally an insult to any cinephile!
Last edited by ambrose on Mon Mar 07, 2011 10:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

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