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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 4:56 pm 
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Quite disappointed that after La poison and City of Women, MoC are again just porting the Gaumont discs in the UK. Especially since here, the Chabrol already have english subs on the Gaumont discs, so it's just adding subs on the extras and a booklet.

Moreover, you can currently get both Gaumont BDs for about 12€ apiece (without the shipping fees) on Amazon.es.

Not really a difficult import for anybody interested in those movies, especially since the UK releases will be 18 months after the French ones...


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 5:03 pm 
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I feel like I'm the only one disappointed by the line up.

Both Chabrols are available in English-friendly Gaumont releases since Sept 2011, Humanity and paper balloons is said to be available in a nice HD transfer but will only be re-released on DVD, not especially thrilled by Bakumatsu, and the Clouzot is very likely to be released soon by Gaumont in a likely-to-be English friendly edition.
And no Steelbook.
I'm only very happy for La notte ! (but still no extras except the same booklet than the DVD).

I know it's always the same discussion, but I'm certain there was 3 other as interesting movies craving a 1st worldwide BD release.
What about Kwaidan ? Or Fires on the plain ? Still no Tabu, or Muriel either.
I'm thinking of everything we were speculating and well, that's a letdown for me.

Well, that's still some money saved.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 5:09 pm 
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tenia wrote:
I feel like I'm the only one disappointed by the line up.

Fais défiler vers le haut mon coco!


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 5:15 pm 
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I do pretty much feel the same way. I bit my tongue on putting it so harshly in the other thread after seeing how favourable everyone else was to the announcements today, but it does feel like we're just getting a bate of MoC'd French Blu-rays and many of the exclusive MoC Blu-rays end up being barebones (+ booklet) again. People always say some overlap is inevitable but there seems to be a great deal at the moment, sadly.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 5:18 pm 
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Wait is tenia seriously complaining that MoC is releasing stuff that Gaumont might release in the future? Because that's some next level pointless whinging.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 5:24 pm 
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While I agree with him to some extent, I do think that his argument was stronger without that comment, which I entirely disagree with. Any English-friendly firsts should be celebrated by and large. The Clouzot I'm really excited about for that reason.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 5:35 pm 
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matrixschmatrix wrote:
Wait is tenia seriously complaining that MoC is releasing stuff that Gaumont might release in the future? Because that's some next level pointless whinging.

Gaumont are definitely releasing the Clouzot blu early next year as well as a selected theatrical release.
It is a flagship release for them and an in house favourite.
English subs on Gaumont blus are becoming the norm. viz the batch of Pialats etc. However they may have to drop or just not do them in view of the MoC release /possible Criterion deal.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 6:28 pm 
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NABOB OF NOWHERE wrote:
matrixschmatrix wrote:
Wait is tenia seriously complaining that MoC is releasing stuff that Gaumont might release in the future? Because that's some next level pointless whinging.

Gaumont are definitely releasing the Clouzot blu early next year as well as a selected theatrical release.
It is a flagship release for them and an in house favourite.
English subs on Gaumont blus are becoming the norm. viz the batch of Pialats etc. However they may have to drop or just not do them in view of the MoC release /possible Criterion deal.


Exactly.

It has been several times announced as a key BD release by Jerome Soulet this year, as also will be (finally !) released Fanny & Alexander soon in France (maybe this year, including the TV version !).

With Gaumont putting more and more english subs on their BD now (which L'assassin is very likely to have), this type of UK release are even more niche than they are to begin with.

If Gaumont's BDs weren't with english subs, I wouldn't say the same thing at all. But not only we share the same region B than MoC, but these 2 titles, as City of Women, have also already english subs. So MoC really only adds english subs on the extras and a booklet, as opposite as releasing something really new, like stuff we're waiting for a few years now.

I mean, I'm glad for anyone interested in these releases. But the movies are available in the same state since Sept 2011 now.

TMDaines wrote:
I do think that his argument was stronger without that comment, which I entirely disagree with. Any English-friendly firsts should be celebrated by and large. The Clouzot I'm really excited about for that reason.


For me, it will all come down to content. If the 2 are identical, I'll go for the cheapest, or my MoC-obsessive-completion might win, but I just feel as it's just another movie which will be available in 4 different identical editions over the world, where a lot of stuff are waiting to be released at all.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 6:31 pm 
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tenia wrote:
as opposite as releasing something really new
You mean like Bakumatsu taiyō-den?

Quote:
like stuff we're waiting for a few years now
You mean like the complete extant works of Yamanaka?


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 6:42 pm 
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swo17 wrote:
tenia wrote:
as opposite as releasing something really new
You mean like Bakumatsu taiyō-den?

Quote:
like stuff we're waiting for a few years now
You mean like the complete extant works of Yamanaka?


Like 2 other new movies on top of these ones, yes. \:D/

I know I sound like really pointless nit-picking.

But I just feel like half of line up is just already available. I would have prefer 2 other titles instead of the Chabrol, just like I would have prefer the money put on the overkill 4K scan + restoration of Following put partly somewhere else, with just a 2K scan + restoration for the Nolan.

At this speed, we will more likely have the MoC Pialat upgrades straight from Gaumont doing the whole Q2 lineup just by themselves than Kwaidan or The 24 eyes, which I believe are both available in HD (The 24 eyes for some time, now)...

I don't know, I guess I'm just tired of seeing the same movies being released again and again, just on different markets, because, as Nick always said, "independant editors are afraid to play on a bigger level".
Here, seeing that it's his former company which is just doubling an already existing edition, I find this a bit ironic, especially since the Gaumont is so UK-friendly.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 8:54 pm 
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tenia wrote:
I feel like I'm the only one disappointed by the line up.

Both Chabrols are available in English-friendly Gaumont releases since Sept 2011, Humanity and paper balloons is said to be available in a nice HD transfer but will only be re-released on DVD, not especially thrilled by Bakumatsu, and the Clouzot is very likely to be released soon by Gaumont in a likely-to-be English friendly edition.
And no Steelbook.
I'm only very happy for La notte ! (but still no extras except the same booklet than the DVD).

I know it's always the same discussion, but I'm certain there was 3 other as interesting movies craving a 1st worldwide BD release.
What about Kwaidan ? Or Fires on the plain ? Still no Tabu, or Muriel either.
I'm thinking of everything we were speculating and well, that's a letdown for me.

Well, that's still some money saved.


Translation: I'm incredibly disappointed that MoC is releasing two films already available on BluRay in another country; rereleasing one of the greatest Japanese films ever made along with every other scrap of film, including two important, unavailable features made by the same director; a major film by Antonioni previously unavailable on BluRay; debuting an unavailable Clouzot in HD and releasing in HD an unknown Japanese film that is reputedly one of the greatest ever made.

I'd much rather they were rereleasing three films they've already released in the best available editions internationally, plus one that's been available from Criterion for umpteen years.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:05 am 
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I largely agree with tenia, but I also have a great deal of sympathy for MoC: I'm no expert, but Nick has made it pretty clear in the past that MoC has to play the cards they are dealt, by and large, given the quality of materials needed to produce Blus which will deliver at a sufficiently high level. The release overlap is unfortunate, but I can't see MoC refusing to release stuff like the Chabrols/City of Women/etc on the grounds that there are already near-identical English-subbed editions available elsewhere in the world. Until region-coding has been well and truly abolished (extremely unlikely, and further complicated by international shipping fees, which are only going to go up), or distribution moves a great deal more towards online/streaming (which may well restrict content access even further by country, mind), then I think it's primarily the major studios/resto houses/individuals behind the scenes, not labels like MoC, who deserve the scorn for fostering an environment which discourages as wide/diverse a slate of releases as possible in favour of saturating the market with the same titles multiple times over.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:27 am 
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I'd also imagine its the money made on some of these cheaper-to-produce titles that makes it possible to fund the riskier releases, so they're hard to separate.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:50 am 
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zedz wrote:
Translation: I'm incredibly disappointed that MoC is releasing two films already available on BluRay in another country; rereleasing one of the greatest Japanese films ever made along with every other scrap of film, including two important, unavailable features made by the same director; a major film by Antonioni previously unavailable on BluRay; debuting an unavailable Clouzot in HD and releasing in HD an unknown Japanese film that is reputedly one of the greatest ever made.


I unfortunately can't be more subtle / precise than this since English is not my mother tongue :
I'm very happy about the the Yamanaka DVD box set and Bakumatsu. Even if I'm extremely happy for the Antonioni, I know it's going to be bare bones, which is always a bit of a pity. It's also nice to see debuting the Clouzot, but that's an already coming overlap. But yes, I would have love seen upgrades / releases of movies not yet available in HD (like Bakumatsu or La notte) instead of the Chabrols.

MoC has released a huge bunch of exclusive BDs lately, like the Pasolinis, the former Antonionis and all this amazing stuff.

I used to buy every single MoC releases. Out of all they realeased on BD, I only skipped the Murnaus which I already have from Carlotta. And suddenly, in half a year, there will be at least 4 releases I will skip due to overlap. It is, for me, a bit underwhelming and is really calming my enthusiasm about these line ups. Especially since the exclusive MoC BD releases will likely be barebones.

Don't misunderstand me. As Gregor and Cronenfly are saying, I perfecly understand the needs to release titles which are not directly available in UK but very easily releasable without having any restoration or whatever to handle.

I'm also more focusing my discussion about the Chabrols which are available for more than a year than the Clouzot which will likely be available by MoC first.

But I'm missing the MoC treatment there.

zedz wrote:
I'd much rather they were rereleasing three films they've already released in the best available editions internationally, plus one that's been available from Criterion for umpteen years.


That's what they're doing for the Antonioni, and everyone, including you & me, seems quite positive about it (upgrading "a major film [by Antonioni] previously unavailable on BluRay").


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 5:48 am 
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I'm a bit surprised that this discussion comes up only now, and then with this particular bunch of announcements which for once are REALLY major and much, much desired (Yamanaka, Kawashima, Clouzot), while everyone seemed to be happy for the most part of the year with them releasing (all right, upgrading) stuff that indeed had been very easily available in good editions before: you know, the Pasolinis, "Trouble in Paradise", "Lifeboat", "Cleopatra", and so on. These new announcements instead feel like a return to form to me, to the MoC of old. I'm very excited and pleased for sure.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:05 am 
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Tommaso wrote:
I'm a bit surprised that this discussion comes up only now, and then with this particular bunch of announcements which for once are REALLY major and much, much desired (Yamanaka, Kawashima, Clouzot), while everyone seemed to be happy for the most part of the year with them releasing (all right, upgrading) stuff that indeed had been very easily available in good editions before: you know, the Pasolinis, "Trouble in Paradise", "Lifeboat", "Cleopatra", and so on. These new announcements instead feel like a return to form to me, to the MoC of old. I'm very excited and pleased for sure.


There is for me a clear line between releasing movies and upgrading them.
For me, the Pasolinis, Lifeboat, Cleopatra and all, while indeed already available in good editions, were only available in DVD. Upgrading them to BD is what I find to be a big improvement, no just re-releasing stuff already available. That's part of why I'm underwhelmed : the 2 Chabrols are not only already available on good DVD editions, they are in good UK friendly BD editions.

But anyway, it seems as I'm the only one really underwhelmed by this announcement, so I will just go quiet now and let everyone enjoys this. I do not want to expand uselessly this discussion or spoil the fun.

It was just my 2 cents, but I do understand how I can sound as a spoiled brat, and how my opinion might not be shared.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:34 am 
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Maybe direct ports mean that MoC can up their release rate.

I appreciate some people's disappointment to an extent, but as someone region-locked and unable to afford too much importation even from France, I'm very happy about these Chabrols.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:55 am 
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I'm not region-locked, but I was until very recently, and I'd say that this is still true of many of my Blu-ray compatible friends. And I order comparatively little from France, because the exchange rate is usually against me - so I'm another one who welcomes these releases.

It's also well worth noting that for all MoC's fully deserved reputation for curatorial excellence, they simply can't afford to work from anything other than existing masters in the overwhelming majority of cases. And those who do foot the bill for HD mastering rely quite heavily on being able to license the end result to distributors and broadcasters abroad.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:12 pm 
I've been meaning to import the Gaumont discs but never got around to it. Now I'm happy I can give my money to MOC on account of the great work they've been doing.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:31 pm 
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Both Les cousins and Le beau Serge Gaumont's BDs are region free.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:38 pm 
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tenia wrote:
Both Les cousins and Le beau Serge Gaumont's BDs are region free.

RossyG and I are both based in the UK, so this is irrelevant: our point about region coding applied to Criterion BDs.

Our point about French BDs is that they're generally pretty expensive because of the stubbornly strong Euro - it's much cheaper to import from elsewhere at present.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:39 pm 
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I hear you, tenia. People shouldn't feel discouraged from posting negative feedback. I'm sure labels like to have feedback - both positive and negative - on their curation. A bunch of people just saying nothing or blowing bubbles up their backside and then not buying their releases is what would be really unhelpful.

The reason why we critique labels like Criterion and MoC is because they have such high standards and we love to buy their great work.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:45 pm 
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TMDaines wrote:
I hear you, tenia. People shouldn't feel discouraged from posting negative feedback. I'm sure labels like to have feedback - both positive and negative - on their curation. A bunch of people just saying nothing or blowing bubbles up their backside and then not buying their releases is what would be really unhelpful.

Which is why it's also fair game to post negative feedback about other people's negative feedback


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:50 pm 
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That's not a problem when it's fair criticism or a counterpoint, but much of the time people posting negative feedback are instantly labelled ungrateful or are on the end of sarcastic mocking. If you love the announcements then great, if you're disappointed by them for a particular constructive reason then fair enough, but both groups should feel free to post.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:56 pm 
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I don't understand this argument about a strong euro making all French releases prohibitively expensive. How on earth are you exchanging your euros or where are you buying things from? You can currently get both Chabrol Blu-rays for €31.25 shipped to the UK from Amazon.es. That's £25.26. It's a crapshoot as to whether you'll get both MoC's at that price on release or shortly after.


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