52-59 / BD 36-37, 71-72 Late Mizoguchi: Eight Films, 1951-56

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L.A.
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Re: 52-59 / BD 36-37, 71-72 Late Mizoguchi: Eight Films, 195

#476 Post by L.A. » Wed Nov 13, 2013 9:01 pm

Can we discuss this in the "Where's my MoC?" -thread, please?

Thank you and good night.

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Matt
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Re: 52-59 / BD 36-37, 71-72 Late Mizoguchi: Eight Films, 195

#477 Post by Matt » Wed Nov 13, 2013 9:05 pm

No, this thread is already nothing but anticipation and idle chatter. If you want to discuss the movies themselves, there are other threads for them in this same section.


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Re: 52-59 / BD 36-37, 71-72 Late Mizoguchi: Eight Films, 195

#479 Post by MichaelB » Thu Nov 14, 2013 5:41 am

Gregory wrote:I got one of the worst numbers of anyone so far: 576—not especially high or low, not prime, not associated with pot culture.
It's the vertical resolution of PAL/European SD video, if that's any help? No? Oh well.

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L.A.
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Re: 52-59 / BD 36-37, 71-72 Late Mizoguchi: Eight Films, 195

#480 Post by L.A. » Thu Nov 14, 2013 8:28 am

Matt wrote:No, this thread is already nothing but anticipation and idle chatter. If you want to discuss the movies themselves, there are other threads for them in this same section.
I guess you have a point. Sorry for the rant.

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Re: 52-59 / BD 36-37, 71-72 Late Mizoguchi: Eight Films, 195

#481 Post by NABOB OF NOWHERE » Thu Nov 14, 2013 9:42 am

I have 237 and yes it was delivered by 8 year old girl twins in party frocks. Will we have the same numeric excitement for the Boro box (for which I just did the 60 nicker pledge thing)?

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Re: 52-59 / BD 36-37, 71-72 Late Mizoguchi: Eight Films, 195

#482 Post by Forrest Taft » Thu Nov 14, 2013 11:28 am

#0126/2000 here, slight dent in one corner. Otherwise A OK. My Arrow Limited Collector's edition of The Texas Chainsaw Massacre 2 is #09977/10000. I wonder who got the first 9976.

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Re: 52-59 / BD 36-37, 71-72 Late Mizoguchi: Eight Films, 195

#483 Post by jindianajonz » Thu Nov 14, 2013 8:41 pm

Oh boy! I got 1881, the year Chester A Arthur became president!

Kind of surprised it arrived so quickly, since I bought it a few days after release.

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Re: 52-59 / BD 36-37, 71-72 Late Mizoguchi: Eight Films, 195

#484 Post by fdm » Sat Nov 16, 2013 3:34 am

Wish it was as cheap to send a box set back to Amazon UK as it was to have it sent to me. Thankfully they refunded the whole amount, thought for sure they were going to stick to the £8.09 they indicated as maximum reimbursement when I set up the return. (Just shy of $28 by the way. Phew.)

Eureka copy should be arriving any day now.

(Edit: Arrived Thursday 21st. Much better. #967)
Last edited by fdm on Sun Nov 24, 2013 4:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 52-59 / BD 36-37, 71-72 Late Mizoguchi: Eight Films, 195

#485 Post by Max von Mayerling » Sat Nov 23, 2013 4:04 pm

In case anybody cares, I ordered this set from Eureka on November 17 and received it today. So they are apparently still available from Eureka at this point.

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Re: 52-59 / BD 36-37, 71-72 Late Mizoguchi: Eight Films, 195

#486 Post by Telstar » Tue Jan 07, 2014 10:15 am

Thought I'd revive this thread and see if anyone was interested in comparing the blu-ray image quality of these films to the original dvds. I've only been able to locate a handful of reviews that address that.

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Re: 52-59 / BD 36-37, 71-72 Late Mizoguchi: Eight Films, 195

#487 Post by tenia » Tue Jan 07, 2014 12:15 pm

From what I've seen, it's not the biggest upgrade ever, first because there hasn't really been some new work done (no new remaster / restoration), second because the sources don't always allow it. However, some limitations have been addressed, the definition is often there, the encodes are all pretty clean, so it's pretty good, though not Earth shattering.

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Re: MoC: Cheapest Prices/Best Places to Buy/Pre-Orders/Deals

#488 Post by Drucker » Tue Apr 15, 2014 10:51 am

The Mizoguchi set is now unavailable from MOC directly.
We've just officially deleted our LATE MIZOGUCHI Ltd Edition Box Set from last year. Grab a copy whilst you still can! http://amzn.to/1t57mkc" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Amazon Still appear to have stock

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Re: 52-59 / BD 36-37, 71-72 Late Mizoguchi: Eight Films, 195

#489 Post by tenia » Tue Apr 15, 2014 11:43 am

Si it did sell out in the end, except in 6 months and not in 6... weeks as it seems like when you go back in the older posts of this topic. :P

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Re: 52-59 / BD 36-37, 71-72 Late Mizoguchi: Eight Films, 195

#490 Post by Zot! » Tue Apr 15, 2014 11:55 am

Actually I think Zedz was speculating 6 months. I'm on the fence about Mizoguchi after fiinishing this set. Previously had only seen the "hits". Great technique and filmmaking, but his thematic concerns strike me as more simplisitic and the drama more inert than his contemporaries and what came after.

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Re: 52-59 / BD 36-37, 71-72 Late Mizoguchi: Eight Films, 195

#491 Post by swo17 » Tue Apr 15, 2014 12:12 pm

This may be inaccurate, but Amazon says they only have 14 copies left in stock.

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Re: 52-59 / BD 36-37, 71-72 Late Mizoguchi: Eight Films, 195

#492 Post by Michael Kerpan » Tue Apr 15, 2014 12:28 pm

Zot! wrote: I'm on the fence about Mizoguchi after fiinishing this set. Previously had only seen the "hits". Great technique and filmmaking, but his thematic concerns strike me as more simplisitic and the drama more inert than his contemporaries and what came after.
Anything that _did_ particularly impress you in this set?

I find nothing "simplistic" about Chikamatsu monogatari - or even the "lesser" Uwasa no onna. In fact, I'd say the _most_ simplistic films in the set are the two most well-known in the West, plus Yokihi.

The only director who was actually a contemporary of Mizoguchi who has a film that one can find on DVD/Blu is Kinugasa. Anyone else one encounters is effectively from a later cinematic generation. While only a decade (or so) younger, Mizoguchi and Kinugasa did represent a much older dramatic tradition. If one is going to appreciate their work, one has to be willing to re-calibrate a bit -- which I can (usually, but not always) do for Mizoguchi, but not for Kinugasa,

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Re: 52-59 / BD 36-37, 71-72 Late Mizoguchi: Eight Films, 195

#493 Post by Zot! » Tue Apr 15, 2014 1:19 pm

Michael Kerpan wrote:
Zot! wrote: I'm on the fence about Mizoguchi after fiinishing this set. Previously had only seen the "hits". Great technique and filmmaking, but his thematic concerns strike me as more simplisitic and the drama more inert than his contemporaries and what came after.
Anything that _did_ particularly impress you in this set?

I find nothing "simplistic" about Chikamatsu monogatari - or even the "lesser" Uwasa no onna. In fact, I'd say the _most_ simplistic films in the set are the two most well-known in the West, plus Yokihi.

The only director who was actually a contemporary of Mizoguchi who has a film that one can find on DVD/Blu is Kinugasa. Anyone else one encounters is effectively from a later cinematic generation. While only a decade (or so) younger, Mizoguchi and Kinugasa did represent a much older dramatic tradition. If one is going to appreciate their work, one has to be willing to re-calibrate a bit -- which I can (usually, but not always) do for Mizoguchi, but not for Kinugasa,
I think for me Chikamatsu monogatari was a highlight and probably Sansho. You're right though, and I think that's what it is, I'm contextualizing it all wrong. I was contemporizing in regards to the timeframe of this box, rather than Mizoguchi himself. I think you could consider Ozu a contemporary, and I find those films to be closer to what I enjoy in terms of depth and subtext. I agree that "older dramatic tradition" is probably closer than "simplistic" in terms of his drama. Although while his humanist concerns are certainly modern, they're really up front, and over the course of 8 films feel repetative. Though again, they were never intended to be watched in quick succession, so again context is perhaps being applied unfairly.

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Re: MoC: Cheapest Prices/Best Places to Buy/Pre-Orders/Deals

#494 Post by Eureka » Tue Apr 15, 2014 2:28 pm

Drucker wrote:The Mizoguchi set is now unavailable from MOC directly.
We've just officially deleted our LATE MIZOGUCHI Ltd Edition Box Set from last year. Grab a copy whilst you still can! http://amzn.to/1t57mkc" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Amazon Still appear to have stock
Not quite correct. We still have some (read very limited) stock in the office, I've set the PayPal stock system to stop accepting orders in four boxsets' time, but I need to properly count the stock in the morning, I think there's definitely another ten or so.

By officially deleted we mean it is now out of stock at Sony, so, when retailers sell out they cannot order any more.

Amazon saying they have 14 in stock is accurate.

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Re: 52-59 / BD 36-37, 71-72 Late Mizoguchi: Eight Films, 195

#495 Post by Michael Kerpan » Wed Apr 16, 2014 12:06 am

Mizoguchi and Kinugasa both started directing in the early 20s (before the Kanto Earthquake) and were rooted in the late Meiji shimpa theatrical tradition (Kinugasa was actually a star performer of female roles). Ozu -- along with colleagues like Shimizu, Shimazu, Ozu, Gosho, Naruse, Uchida and Yamanaka -- started directing in the late 20s. This group of slightly younger directors had little or no interest in shimpa or in old Japanese movies (especially those that were tied to this tradition). Instead they were dedicated Hollywood movie fans (in much the way that the French New Wave would later be). Their primary influences were modern American films (and European films). For instance, Ozu claimed he never saw a Japanese film prior to going to work at Shochiku, despite watching countless Hollywood movies. So Ozu's film (and those of his cohort) are much easier for Western audiences to respond to than those of Mizoguchi and Kinugasa.

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Re: MoC: Cheapest Prices/Best Places to Buy/Pre-Orders/Deals

#496 Post by Lowry_Sam » Wed Apr 16, 2014 4:49 am

Eureka wrote:
Drucker wrote:The Mizoguchi set is now unavailable from MOC directly.
We've just officially deleted our LATE MIZOGUCHI Ltd Edition Box Set from last year. Grab a copy whilst you still can! http://amzn.to/1t57mkc" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Amazon Still appear to have stock
Not quite correct. We still have some (read very limited) stock in the office, I've set the PayPal stock system to stop accepting orders in four boxsets' time, but I need to properly count the stock in the morning, I think there's definitely another ten or so.
I just tried placing an order, but when I tried checking out through Paypal it was removed....how do we still order it if we want to?

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Re: MoC: Cheapest Prices/Best Places to Buy/Pre-Orders/Deals

#497 Post by TMDaines » Wed Apr 16, 2014 9:08 am

Eureka wrote:
Drucker wrote:The Mizoguchi set is now unavailable from MOC directly.
We've just officially deleted our LATE MIZOGUCHI Ltd Edition Box Set from last year. Grab a copy whilst you still can! http://amzn.to/1t57mkc" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Amazon Still appear to have stock
Not quite correct. We still have some (read very limited) stock in the office, I've set the PayPal stock system to stop accepting orders in four boxsets' time, but I need to properly count the stock in the morning, I think there's definitely another ten or so.

By officially deleted we mean it is now out of stock at Sony, so, when retailers sell out they cannot order any more.

Amazon saying they have 14 in stock is accurate.
Thanks for this clarification. When I saw your tweet last night, I ordered a copy off Amazon, but then cancelled and ordered from you direct once I saw how much cheaper it was. I panicked a little reading this thread earlier!

I've never watched any Mizoguchi - one of the few masters who I am yet to sample - but, before it disappears forever, I couldn't resist grabbing what seems to be one of the pinnacles of the Blu-ray format, whose contents may never be released again in HD. There's been more than a few titles that I've seen go out of print and that several months down the line I've regretted not grabbing after my interests have evolved, but by which point the price has greatly inflated. Eight of his films and a thick book for £38: that's £4 per film and introduction and £6 for the book. It'll be a good primer and even if I don't end up liking the films, I'm sure I can break even when passing the set on.

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Re: 52-59 / BD 36-37, 71-72 Late Mizoguchi: Eight Films, 195

#498 Post by Jonathan S » Wed Apr 16, 2014 9:19 am

Michael Kerpan wrote: For instance, Ozu claimed he never saw a Japanese film prior to going to work at Shochiku, despite watching countless Hollywood movies. So Ozu's film (and those of his cohort) are much easier for Western audiences to respond to than those of Mizoguchi and Kinugasa.
I'm sure you're right, yet I must be the exception. I haven't seen enough Kinugasa to comment, but I've usually found Mizoguchi's films more appealing, more on my emotional wavelength, than Ozu's.

I was so bowled over by Sansho when I first saw it in 1982 that I insisted on running the 16mm print for my parents, and even they were moved by it. This was very notable because my mother (a child during WW2) in particular had a lifelong hatred of "Japs" and would always vent her prejudice whenever Japanese films appeared on television.

I'm sure there's much that I don't understand in Mizoguchi, but his films are generally more accessible to me, especially on an emotional level, because he embraces what I recognise as melodrama, and - though coming from a different tradition - it often feels similar to Hollywood's. Related to this, Mizoguchi films tend to be darker in mood and/or visual style, and this appeals to me too. I also love "sequence shots" with elaborate camera movements, particularly when they are used as appropriately as Mizoguchi does.

My favourite Ozu pictures - like Tokyo Story and A Hen in the Wind - are the few which are regarded as more "melodramatic". Although Ozu literally posts his love of Hollywood in his films, his detached, elliptical storytelling - coupled with an increasingly personal visual style - feels to me like the antithesis of American (and most contemporary European) cinema. Over the last 40 years, I've seen nearly all Ozu's extant pictures, some of them many times, but I still find him a "difficult" director and there are several of his films (notably Good Morning) I can barely get through.

I'm writing here purely about my personal reaction, not attempting an objective, qualitative comparison.

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Re: 52-59 / BD 36-37, 71-72 Late Mizoguchi: Eight Films, 195

#499 Post by Michael Kerpan » Wed Apr 16, 2014 11:17 am

Ozu's Hollywood prefernce seems to have been for films like those of Lloyd and Lubitsch, rather than melodramas. Certainly he was influenced by films like Docks of New York (and Last Laugh) -- but films like these were more of an influence on 1930s Mizoguchi -- while there is little to suggest that Mizoguchi took much interest in American comedies.

Apparently Mizoguchi encountered Western opera -- and was impressed by it. This is most apparent in Story of Late Chrysanthemums, which borrows quite a lot from Verdi's La traviata (an opera his screenwriter was also familiar with). And there IS a very "operatic" quality to much of Mizoguchi's post-20s work -- with visual flourishes taking the place of vocal ones. Being a lifelong opera fan has, I think, helped me appreciate Mizoguchi -- despite my predilection for (at least partially) comic movies. (Not much humor -- except a bit of very bleak, black humor -- in "Hen in the Wind" but "Tokyo Story" has a high level of humor of all sorts that only gradually transitions to somberness in the end).

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Re: 52-59 / BD 36-37, 71-72 Late Mizoguchi: Eight Films, 195

#500 Post by Eureka » Wed Apr 16, 2014 4:41 pm

For those that are interested, we've got ten copies left that I'll be making available tomorrow. Will tweet on the MoC twitter when they are up.

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