32 Funeral Parade of Roses

Discuss DVDs and Blu-rays released by Eureka/Masters of Cinema and the films on them. If it's got a spine number, it's in here.
Forum rules
Please do not clutter up the threads for MoC titles with information on pre-orders. You can announce the availability of pre-orders in the MoC: Cheapest Prices / Best Places to Buy / Pre-Orders thread. Any posts on pre-orders in any other thread will be deleted.
Message
Author
User avatar
criterionsnob
Posts: 522
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 1:23 am
Location: Canada

#26 Post by criterionsnob » Thu May 24, 2007 4:44 pm

I really wanted to like this, but was quite disappointed. The video quality was also very poor (especially the blacks), at least on my system.

User avatar
Michael
Posts: 2423
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 12:09 pm

#27 Post by Michael » Thu May 24, 2007 4:56 pm

Thanks, guys. You just saved me some cash. Not only Matt's mention of "Godardian" pushed me away but nearly every review mentions how influential Funeral Parade is on A Clockwork Orange (my least favorite Kubrick). Godard (except for Vivre Sa Vie mainly for Karina and her miraculous performance) and Clockwork are so opposite of my alley.

However for any one of you who haven't seen Diary of a Lost Girl (just out by MOC), your 20 bucks will be very very well spent. :)

eez28
Posts: 199
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2007 11:51 am
Location: Houston

#28 Post by eez28 » Thu May 24, 2007 5:52 pm

Michael wrote:However for any one of you who haven't seen Diary of a Lost Girl (just out by MOC), your 20 bucks will be very very well spent. :)
who has it for 20 bucks?

evillights
Posts: 223
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 2:47 pm
Location: U.S.
Contact:

#29 Post by evillights » Thu May 24, 2007 5:57 pm

Michael wrote:Thanks, guys. You just saved me some cash. Not only Matt's mention of "Godardian" pushed me away but nearly every review mentions how Funeral Parade is an influence on A Clockwork Orange (my least favorite Kubrick). Godard (except for Vivre Sa Vie mainly for Karina and her miraculous performance) and Clockwork are so opposite of my alley.

However for any one of you who haven't seen Diary of a Lost Girl (just out by MOC), your 20 bucks will be very very well spent. :)
Everyone has his or her own tastes, which is natural. Still, I'd like to put a few words out there in case anyone was zeroing in on the comparisons of 'Funeral Parade of Roses' and Godard+Kubrick and basing their decision of whether or not they want to see the film on its supposed vicinity to the work of either filmmaker. (I know you were just responding to things that have been said about both films, Michael, and didn't originate these terms.)

'Funeral Parade of Roses' is only "Godardian" insofar as there's not much of any three-act story, and the story that exists is presented with some amount of temporal shuffle. It seems to me that the term "Godardian" (like "Kafkaesque" or "Picasso-like") has become a byword for "non-linear and maybe vaguely essay-like," and sounds meaningless outside of discussing something Jean-Luc Godard himself has created; he's inimitable, and so it also registers as a qualitative term... because if one is not Godard, one cannot try to be "like" Godard, and therefore all strict attempts are doomed to fail. The surface strategies of his films are indissociable from the content, ideas, and worldview and personality of the man himself. 'Funeral Parade of Roses'... is something different, and its intentions are as confused and imitative as a lot of the rest of the Art Theatre Guild stable -- although I don't think this presents a total drawback in the case of Matsumoto's film, which manages to create a fairly teeming portrait of Tokyo counterculture -- I say "create," because "counterculture" has had as difficult a time taking root in real-Japan and effecting social change as, say, Christianity. (See forthcoming MoC title 'Silence' by Shinoda for more on that matter, and read Endo's worthwhile novel in the meantime if you can.) The ATG "me-too" strain does rise to the top a little too unfiltered (to cite two recent viewings) in parts of Oshima's 'Diary of a Shinjuku Thief' (which I like a little bit anyway), and 'The Man Who Left His Will on Film' (actual title: "The Untold Story of Post-War Tokyo"), which is maybe the all-time nadir of Japanese cinema.

But, back to 'Funeral Parade,' I think another thing that's kind of interesting is the fact that the locus of the countercultural milieu in the film is gay-lifestyle and gay-nightlife, which are revolutionary a priori, and as such grant both a sly and pretty practical way of centering the portrayals of all the other revolutionary activities in the margins.

The film has no relation to 'A Clockwork Orange' (a movie I love deeply) beyond both films containing sequences shot in fast-mo.

craig.

User avatar
Michael
Posts: 2423
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 12:09 pm

#30 Post by Michael » Thu May 24, 2007 6:36 pm

I'd rent the movie in a heartbeat but since I'm in the US, the only way I can see it is by ordering the disc. I think I understand what Matt means by "Godardian". I've seen at least 10 films and read a bunch of essays by Godard. Except for Karina's presence in Vivre sa Vie, Godard doesn't do anything for me. Fellini, Sirk, Bava, Fassbinder, Altman, Haynes - those directors I love. If Matt said "Funeral Parade of Roses is Sirkian", then that'd be enough motivation for me to order the disc. I don't really want to get into all the details why I dislike Godard.. save that for our coffee talk. :) Look up the title on IMDB, 4 out of 5 comments mention A Clockwork Orange - enough to turn me off.

But of course that's not the best way to estimate films.
Last edited by Michael on Fri May 25, 2007 11:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Matt
Posts: 6300
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:58 pm

#31 Post by Matt » Fri May 25, 2007 11:06 am

I stand by my statement of "Godardian" and fully endorse its use as a descriptive term applied to works imitative of Godard's worst excesses (and don't fool yourself into thinking he can't be imitated--watch any one of Gregg Araki's first few films for starters). To be honest, though, I don't see the influence on Clockwork Orange, except for the presence of a milk bar in both films, and it's not like Matsumoto or Kubrick (or Anthony Burgess for that matter) invented such a concept.

evillights
Posts: 223
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 2:47 pm
Location: U.S.
Contact:

#32 Post by evillights » Fri May 25, 2007 2:31 pm

Matt wrote:I stand by my statement of "Godardian" and fully endorse its use as a descriptive term applied to works imitative of Godard's worst excesses (and don't fool yourself into thinking he can't be imitated--watch any one of Gregg Araki's first few films for starters). To be honest, though, I don't see the influence on Clockwork Orange, except for the presence of a milk bar in both films, and it's not like Matsumoto or Kubrick (or Anthony Burgess for that matter) invented such a concept.
It's interesting how the general temperature of Criterionforum.org around Godard is something like 102.3 (Fahrenheit, or a bad FM station: take your pick) -- like an infection brought on by some "cinema-pest." I can't even imagine what the "worst excesses" are (haughty huff huff) that this Matt character is referring to, like the cod-urbane voice of God Himself. Beyond a rigorous, and unabashed, French strain of intellectualism which the FDA might classify as "fanboy noisome."

BTW Michael, regarding Louise's performance -- it's all true. But remember that like Anna-as-Nana in 'Vivre sa vie,' Brooks-as-Thymian in 'Diary' is very much a product of direction. The talents and souls of both women were of course (and are still, for AK) colossal, and the encounters between filmmaker and actress in these pictures sent forth some certain kind of magic. Indeed I think that the presence of "grace" plays a large part in both films, and certainly 'Vivre sa vie' is the Godard-with-Karina where the idea is most central (speaking even more broadly than to remark upon the screening of the Dreyer film; it's Godard's first major response -- and a kindred one -- to Bresson, although 'Le Petit soldat' is something of a prefatory statement) -- but it shows up again via Myriem Roussel in 'Je vous salue, Marie' and then Nade Dieu in the most recent feature, 'Notre musique.'

It's also worth nothing about 'Diary' that the film marks the significant debut of the great Sybille Schmitz, thick with intimations of her final fate -- as projected brilliantly in Fassbinder's 'The Longing of Veronika Voss.'

craig.

User avatar
Michael
Posts: 2423
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 12:09 pm

#33 Post by Michael » Mon May 28, 2007 12:29 pm

It's interesting how the general temperature of Criterionforum.org around Godard is something like 102.3 (Fahrenheit, or a bad FM station: take your pick) -- like an infection brought on by some "cinema-pest." I can't even imagine what the "worst excesses" are (haughty huff huff) that this Matt character is referring to, like the cod-urbane voice of God Himself. Beyond a rigorous, and unabashed, French strain of intellectualism which the FDA might classify as "fanboy noisome."
You gotta be kidding. Hang around here a little more and you will find some Godard nuts like yourself. Do you really expect the world, this whole forum for that matter, to worship Godard?
BTW Michael, regarding Louise's performance -- it's all true. But remember that like Anna-as-Nana in 'Vivre sa vie,' Brooks-as-Thymian in 'Diary' is very much a product of direction. The talents and souls of both women were of course (and are still, for AK) colossal, and the encounters between filmmaker and actress in these pictures sent forth some certain kind of magic. Indeed I think that the presence of "grace" plays a large part in both films, and certainly 'Vivre sa vie' is the Godard-with-Karina where the idea is most central (speaking even more broadly than to remark upon the screening of the Dreyer film; it's Godard's first major response -- and a kindred one -- to Bresson, although 'Le Petit soldat' is something of a prefatory statement) -- but it shows up again via Myriem Roussel in 'Je vous salue, Marie' and then Nade Dieu in the most recent feature, 'Notre musique.'
Ok. The only thing that keeps Vivre sa vie from becoming my favorite is its stupid ending. Is that the best Godard could come up with? I despite him for killing her just like that. What an asshole. It's perfectly fine if she has to die but I simply don't like how Godard treated her. Wiping her off like she was nothing neglecting how much soul Karina put into Nana. All for what? It's very possible that I misread or misunderstand but it remains ridiculous and pointless to me like that wonderful woman killing herself in Garcon Stupide.

But Pabst treated Thymian a lot differently; through all the mess, she remains pure and very much a heroine and that's a big difference from Godard.

Bloody Benten
Posts: 37
Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2008 2:52 am

Re: 'Forthcoming' Lists Discussion and Random Speculation

#34 Post by Bloody Benten » Wed Nov 26, 2008 2:54 am

I think at one point I saw Funeral Parade of Roses on the forthcoming list but now it's not on there. Does that it's not coming anymore or coming soon? Should I just buy the Masters of Cinema DVD?

User avatar
reno dakota
Posts: 392
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 11:30 am

Re: 'Forthcoming' Lists Discussion and Random Speculation

#35 Post by reno dakota » Wed Nov 26, 2008 3:26 am

Bloody Benten wrote:I think at one point I saw Funeral Parade of Roses on the forthcoming list but now it's not on there. Does that it's not coming anymore or coming soon? Should I just buy the Masters of Cinema DVD?
Why wait for a Criterion release when the MoC disc is beautiful, available and very reasonably priced?

Bloody Benten
Posts: 37
Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2008 2:52 am

Re: 'Forthcoming' Lists Discussion and Random Speculation

#36 Post by Bloody Benten » Wed Nov 26, 2008 3:56 am

reno dakota wrote:
Bloody Benten wrote:I think at one point I saw Funeral Parade of Roses on the forthcoming list but now it's not on there. Does that it's not coming anymore or coming soon? Should I just buy the Masters of Cinema DVD?
Why wait for a Criterion release when the MoC disc is beautiful, available and very reasonably priced?
Well I live an hour away from Scarecrow Video and they sell some Masters of Cinema DVDs right off theshelf. I picked up Kuroneko tonight and was debating on Funeral when I remembered there was a possibility Criterion was gonna put it out. So I guess I should just get the MoC!

User avatar
Cinephrenic
Posts: 2499
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 2:58 pm
Location: Paris, Texas

Re: 'Forthcoming' Lists Discussion and Random Speculation

#37 Post by Cinephrenic » Wed Nov 26, 2008 4:06 am

Bloody Benten wrote:I think at one point I saw Funeral Parade of Roses on the forthcoming list but now it's not on there.
Nope

User avatar
luridedith
Posts: 131
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 7:34 pm

Re: 'Forthcoming' Lists Discussion and Random Speculation

#38 Post by luridedith » Wed Nov 26, 2008 8:50 am

reno dakota wrote: Why wait for a Criterion release when the MoC disc is beautiful, available and very reasonably priced?
Am I the only one who found the transfer on the Funeral Parade Of Roses MoC disc pretty underwhelming? Its a little watery and faded on my tv and the blacks don't stand out as much as they should, although the package itself is beautiful.

yoshimori
Posts: 692
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 2:03 am
Location: LA CA

Re: 'Forthcoming' Lists Discussion and Random Speculation

#39 Post by yoshimori » Wed Nov 26, 2008 9:16 am

luridedith wrote:Am I the only one who found the transfer on the Funeral Parade Of Roses MoC disc pretty underwhelming? Its a little watery and faded on my tv and the blacks don't stand out as much as they should, although the package itself is beautiful.
The unusually low contrast seems (unfortunately iyam) a conscious MoC strategy. Not as bad here as in other instances.

User avatar
HerrSchreck
Posts: 6324
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2005 11:46 am

Re: 'Forthcoming' Lists Discussion and Random Speculation

#40 Post by HerrSchreck » Wed Nov 26, 2008 9:35 am

I think if anything, rather than a strategy of low-contrast, MoC pretty much (since they rarely if ever run their own in house telecine, like Criterion--CC is one of the very few houses to run their own transfers for nearly each dvd) seeks out transfers that naturally represent the state of the elements, and are very light on the trigger when it comes to contrast boosting, degraining filters, and edge enhancement etc.

To be commended, for sure. One of my least favorite aspects of CC releases, is the great sense of manipulation , making the films (esp old films shot on stock with a much higher grain factor than today's... particularly those made before 1965) look too much like glossy candy.

User avatar
Tommaso
Posts: 4027
Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 10:09 am

Re: 'Forthcoming' Lists Discussion and Random Speculation

#41 Post by Tommaso » Wed Nov 26, 2008 9:38 am

Rather call it unmanipulated contrast than low contrast. The look of "Funeral Parade" wasn't exactly my taste, too, but take into account that it is a) a Japanese film which probably even at that time generally had far lower contrast than American black&white films, and b) that it was probably a pretty cheap production, too.
But I agree: it is indeed a conscious MoC strategy not to fiddle too much with the knobs. In some cases some manipulation might have helped the image (see "Silence"), but in any case it seems we're seeing these films pretty much the way they looked in the cinema. Give me slightly faded blacks any time over "Early Summer" or "Drunken Angel"-style CC images. I bet CC will boost the hell out of "Funeral Parade" again.

EDIT: Schreck, you were faster in your reply, but I let it stand as it is.

yoshimori
Posts: 692
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 2:03 am
Location: LA CA

Re: 'Forthcoming' Lists Discussion and Random Speculation

#42 Post by yoshimori » Wed Nov 26, 2008 10:43 am

Tommaso wrote:but in any case it seems we're seeing these films pretty much the way they looked in the cinema.
I saw a new print of Assassination in the theater the night before my DVD arrived from England. It was like watching a different movie. The Kuroneko transfer was even more shocking. I've seen Funeral Parade in the theater a couple of times too, though not so recently. Both the r2jp and r2uk discs were disappointingly mild compared to the prints. And ...

There may be quite a difference between prints - what one sees in the theater - and a low contrast interpositive. [I'm not sure what MoC or their sources are using as the basis of their transfers.] The negative is another thing altogether and may be nothing like a print, since, as you perhaps know, prints are timed from the negative, not simply 1:1 (albeit reversed) copies. Low-con prints are often used as the basis for transfers, not because they represent a more intended version of the film than a theatrical print does, but because it is easier to manipulate them to produce the desired effect (re contrast, color, etc). A low-con source allows one to produce a nice low-con print and to produce a nice higher-con print. A timed print is more restrictive. There is, however, no reason to do a straight 1:1 transfer of the low-con source, that's not what it is for. No one shows low-con prints in the theater. So, IF MoC is using low-con elements or negative for its source material - and, again, I have no idea what they're using, but I do see the results - to leave it "unmanipulated" re brightness and color probably means not to attempt to recreate the filmmakers' druthers.

Cinematographers devote much attention to methods of increasing contrast from the negative to the print. It's not, for them anyway, as if the negative were some sort of Holy Grail in which the mystical blood of the messianic image is preserved.

[PS. I'll certainly agree with the poster below re supplements: I'm glad to have the Matsumoto commentary that's on the MoC Funeral Parade disc.]
Last edited by yoshimori on Wed Nov 26, 2008 11:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
FerdinandGriffon
Posts: 793
Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2008 11:16 am

Re: 'Forthcoming' Lists Discussion and Random Speculation

#43 Post by FerdinandGriffon » Wed Nov 26, 2008 11:26 am

Just watched Funeral Parade last night and I have to say that I was a little taken aback by the transfer. A huge amount was lost in the murk, not to mention the fact that there were a number of artifacts. The audio was also rife with artifacts. All in all, probably not the best first MoC experience. I only hope the Naruse and La Notte DVDs I bought from them turn out better.

Just to be fair though, MoC did put together really fantastic supplements for Funeral Parade.

User avatar
Tommaso
Posts: 4027
Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 10:09 am

Re: 'Forthcoming' Lists Discussion and Random Speculation

#44 Post by Tommaso » Wed Nov 26, 2008 11:34 am

I fear you will be disappointed with the Naruses at least if you're used to CC style contrast. Personally I find the MoC Naruses look great (definitely better than "Funeral Parade", but that likely is due to the source materials). "La Notte" in my view doesn't quite live up to the CC discs of "L'Avventura" and "L'Eclisse", but still is a very good disc (not to speak of the film itself).

Thanks for the technical details, Yoshimori. Perhaps Peerpee could chime in and elucidate further?

User avatar
manicsounds
Posts: 3888
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 10:58 pm
Location: Tokyo, Japan

Re: 32 Funeral Parade of Roses

#45 Post by manicsounds » Sat Jul 02, 2016 9:09 am

New restoration by Cinelicious in the US

User avatar
jorencain
Posts: 616
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 1:45 am

Re: 32 Funeral Parade of Roses

#46 Post by jorencain » Sat Jul 02, 2016 9:15 am

That's great news. I've loved this film since I got the MoC. It can most certainly use a massive upgrade.

User avatar
rapta
Posts: 894
Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2014 5:04 pm
Location: Hants, UK

Re: 32 Funeral Parade of Roses

#47 Post by rapta » Sat Jul 02, 2016 7:45 pm

My fingers are crossed that Eureka can license this from Cinelicious (and perhaps Private Property as well whilst they're at it), and release it next year. Cinelicious definitely do sub-license to UK labels, since Anime Ltd have got the Belladonna of Sadness restoration from them and are planning a Blu-ray later this year.

Been itching for MoC to upgrade some of their DVD-only Japanese titles...this would be a great place to start.

User avatar
L.A.
Posts: 1053
Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 7:33 am
Location: Helsinki, Finland

Re: 32 Funeral Parade of Roses

#48 Post by L.A. » Sat Jul 02, 2016 8:00 pm

rapta wrote:(and perhaps Private Property as well whilst they're at it)
Noticed the news for the restoration for this and I agree, this would be a nice addition for MoC. Wouldn't say no to Stevens' Incubus getting a new restoration as well.

Post Reply