BD 99 Intolerance

Discuss DVDs and Blu-rays released by Eureka/Masters of Cinema and the films on them. If it's got a spine number, it's in here.
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swo17
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:25 am
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BD 99 Intolerance

#1 Post by swo17 » Tue Aug 19, 2014 10:42 am

Intolerance

Image

After shaking the world with his hugely controversial epic The Birth of a Nation, pioneer filmmaker D. W. Griffith spared no expense in putting together his next project: a powerful examination of intolerance as it has persisted throughout civilisation, set across four parallel storylines that span 2500 years.

There is the Babylonian story, depicting nothing less than the fall of Babylon; the Judean story, which revolves around the crucifixion of Christ; the French story, which presents the St. Bartholomew's Day Massacre in all its horror; and a modern American story of class struggle, crime, and the plight of life in the early 20th century set within urban slums and the prison system.

Starring such luminaries as Lillian Gish, Constance Talmadge, and Miriam Cooper, who share screentime with an enormous main cast and some 3,000 extras, Griffith's film — the most expensive motion picture ever produced at the time — went on to become a critical success whose influence has only grown in the decades since. The Masters of Cinema Series are proud to present the 2013 restoration of Kevin Brownlow's and David Gill's preserved Intolerance, featuring Carl Davis's orchestral score, for the first time on Blu-ray and DVD in the UK.

DUAL FORMAT RELEASE INCLUDING BLU-RAY AND DVD VERSIONS OF THE FILM

• New high-definition 1080p presentation of the acclaimed Brownlow and Gill "Thames Silents" restoration of the film
• Orchestral score by the esteemed composer Carl Davis
• Two feature-length films by Griffith that act as companion pieces to Intolerance and take their material from the main film: The Fall of Babylon and The Mother and the Law, accompanied by new scores by the Mont Alto Motion Picture Orchestra
Three Hours That Shook the World: Observations on 'Intolerance', a 2013 documentary featuring preservationist Kevin Brownlow discussing the film
• 56-PAGE BOOKLET filled with vintage and modern reports, reflections, and essays on the film

pianist
Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2014 4:23 am

Re: Forthcoming: Intolerance

#2 Post by pianist » Wed Aug 20, 2014 6:41 am

swo17 wrote:
The acclaimed silent era masterpiece from D.W. Griffith, INTOLERANCE will join the #mastersofcinema Series on Blu-ray in late 2014
Great news!

Been banging on recently about wanting this out on Blu-Ray, so someone somewhere was listening. \:D/

Same with Spione, Tagebuch einer Verlorenen and Thief of Bagdad.

I wonder if my wishlist request will be honoured in the first part of 2015

Die 1000 Augen des Dr. Mabuse
Der Golem, wie er in die Welt kam
Der Schrecken im Hause Ardon
- is there a surviving 35mm/decent print?
A Browning/Chaney film (MGM or Turner might not allow Eureka to release, but it is a wishlist)

Jonathan S
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2008 3:31 am
Location: Somerset, England

Re: Forthcoming: Intolerance

#3 Post by Jonathan S » Wed Aug 20, 2014 11:07 am

It will be interesting to see what extras MoC come up with, but for now it's worth remembering that the Cohen blu-ray - also with the Carl Davis score - has three hours of extras (on a second disc), including two complete related features. It's also region-free, despite information to the contrary on some sites. Personally, I'm very happy with it, but the MoC might well be cheaper, especially for UK buyers.


Orlac
Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2009 4:29 am

Re: BD 99 Intolerance

#5 Post by Orlac » Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:39 pm

How the Cohen for frame rate and smoothness of playback. Their Thief of Baghdad attracted criticism.

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EddieLarkin
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Re: BD 99 Intolerance

#6 Post by EddieLarkin » Sat Oct 11, 2014 5:10 pm

I haven't seen it, but the reason Thief attracted criticism is because it is 22fps, which is a very difficult frame rate to interpolate successfully. I believe Intolerance is either 18 or 20fps, so there shouldn't be an issue (or if there is one on the Cohen disc, Eureka should easily be able to correct for it).

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MichaelB
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Re: BD 99 Intolerance

#7 Post by MichaelB » Sat Oct 18, 2014 2:51 pm

MoC's Intolerance has been encoded progressively at a framerate of 1-2-3-repeat-1-2-3-repeat. Which according to my calculations comes to 18fps - and it looks absolutely fine.

Absolutely gorgeous restoration so far - it's the same one that fuelled the Cohen Media disc.

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EddieLarkin
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Re: BD 99 Intolerance

#8 Post by EddieLarkin » Sat Oct 18, 2014 3:09 pm

Thanks Michael. I figured we'd find out how Thief of Bagdad has been tackled first, it being released a fortnight earlier, so thought your update was about that disc, and I got very confused! Eager to find out about that one too, once you know.

Orlac
Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2009 4:29 am

Re: BD 99 Intolerance

#9 Post by Orlac » Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:44 pm

Fascinating article on a previous restoration - http://www.zzproductions.fr/pdf/griffit ... errith.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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EddieLarkin
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Re: BD 99 Intolerance

#10 Post by EddieLarkin » Wed Oct 22, 2014 10:18 am

Very interesting. It also confirms that 18fps is most likely the correct projection speed.

cinemartin

Re: BD 99 Intolerance

#11 Post by cinemartin » Fri Oct 24, 2014 12:26 pm

That is a great article. Does anyone know the difference between the disc versions (ie, the old Image disc and this one)?

Jonathan S
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Re: BD 99 Intolerance

#12 Post by Jonathan S » Fri Oct 24, 2014 12:57 pm

There's a very detailed comparison between the Cohen and earlier editions in an Amazon customer review. I assume the MoC will be identical to the Cohen in terms of included footage.

A summary of his conclusions:
keviny01 wrote:(1) The Image DVD from 1999, while having the worst picture quality, is the most complete of all versions in terms of the amount of footage available.
(2) The French DVD from 2010, while having terrific picture quality (2nd only to the Cohen Blu-ray), is the least complete of all versions in terms of the amount of footage available.
(3) The Kino DVD from 2002, while having the longest running time, is not as complete as the Image DVD, but not as INcomplete as the French DVD.
(4) The Cohen edition from 2013 has largely identical footage as the Kino DVD.
(5) Each edition has footage not found in other editions.

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MichaelB
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Re: BD 99 Intolerance

#13 Post by MichaelB » Fri Oct 24, 2014 1:12 pm

MoC's disc begins with the Cohen logo and is exactly the same running time (to the second, as MoC's own ident is a separate video file). So that's a pretty definite yes.

cinemartin

Re: BD 99 Intolerance

#14 Post by cinemartin » Fri Oct 24, 2014 1:15 pm

And I suppose from the linked article, it's very difficult (if not impossible) to determine the time period each version comes from. Oh well - glad to have the film on blu in any case.

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FrauBlucher
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Re: BD 99 Intolerance

#15 Post by FrauBlucher » Sat Nov 15, 2014 4:26 pm


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Gregor Samsa
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Re: BD 99 Intolerance

#16 Post by Gregor Samsa » Tue Mar 03, 2015 11:21 pm

I don't think any of the reviews (or MOC's website) have specified what's in the booklet, so for those who don't have it: its a 40-page booklet with the following contents:
William M, Drew: D.W. Griffith's INTOLERANCE: Evolution of a Masterpiece (2013) 5-20

Richard Porton: Coming to Terms with INTOLERANCE (2013) 21-27

Pauline Kael: A Great Folly (1968) 29-37

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HerrSchreck
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Re: BD 99 Intolerance

#17 Post by HerrSchreck » Tue Mar 10, 2015 4:33 pm


Orlac
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Re: BD 99 Intolerance

#18 Post by Orlac » Sat Apr 25, 2015 8:59 am

Does this have the same frame rate issues as The Thief of Baghdad?

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EddieLarkin
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Re: BD 99 Intolerance

#19 Post by EddieLarkin » Sat Apr 25, 2015 9:14 am

No. It plays back at 18fps, which goes into 24p without noticeable stutter.

Orlac
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Re: BD 99 Intolerance

#20 Post by Orlac » Sat Apr 25, 2015 9:47 am

Exxcellent!

jaffe1234
Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2017 1:23 pm

Re: BD 99 Intolerance

#21 Post by jaffe1234 » Tue Aug 08, 2017 4:33 am

I was about to buy this Masters of Cinema Blu-ray of Intolerance but I noticed that it's length is only 167 minutes while for example Kino's release is 197 minutes and some other editions seems to be 176 minutes.

So I was just wondering why is Masters of Cinema edition shorter and is it some inferior truncated or is there good artistic reason to prefer it? Kevin Brownlow was behind that restoration so it's hard to believe that believe that he would make changes without good reasons, but I was just wondering what those reasons were and should I rather watch those longer versions or is that Masters of Cinema version good to go? And what are the differences between different versions? Is there lot of stuff missing in Masters of Cinema or does stuff like frame rates affect it?

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Rayon Vert
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Re: BD 99 Intolerance

#22 Post by Rayon Vert » Wed Aug 09, 2017 1:27 am

jaffe1234 wrote:I was about to buy this Masters of Cinema Blu-ray of Intolerance but I noticed that it's length is only 167 minutes while for example Kino's release is 197 minutes and some other editions seems to be 176 minutes.

So I was just wondering why is Masters of Cinema edition shorter and is it some inferior truncated or is there good artistic reason to prefer it? Kevin Brownlow was behind that restoration so it's hard to believe that believe that he would make changes without good reasons, but I was just wondering what those reasons were and should I rather watch those longer versions or is that Masters of Cinema version good to go? And what are the differences between different versions? Is there lot of stuff missing in Masters of Cinema or does stuff like frame rates affect it?
The discussion on this forum thread seems to indicate that the main raison is that the Kino DVD runs the film slower. But different versions also account for varying presentations on physical media. Apparently both the Kino and Cohen (and Cohen=MOC from what I understand) are missing shots that are on an Image DVD. Someone writes (this is prior to MOC):
I think I need to give a summation here:

(1) The Image DVD from 1999, while having the worst picture quality, is the most complete of all versions in terms of the amount of footage available.
(2) The French DVD from 2010, while having terrific picture quality (2nd only to the Cohen Blu-ray), is the least complete of all versions in terms of the amount of footage available.
(3) The Kino DVD from 2002, while having the longest running time, is not as complete as the Image DVD, but not as INcomplete as the French DVD.
(4) The Cohen edition from 2013 has largely identical footage as the Kino DVD.
(5) Each edition has footage not found in other editions.
(6) The Image disc seems to have better editing in some instances (my opinion only).
EDIT: And now I see someone higher up on this thread has already posted this same information, but taken from an Amazon customer review.

Orlac
Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2009 4:29 am

Re: BD 99 Intolerance

#23 Post by Orlac » Wed Aug 09, 2017 4:44 pm

I'm not sure what the linegae of this Intolerance transfer is. It's possible some of the footage in the Image DVD came from the reissue cut-downs The Mother and the Law, and The Fall of Babylon. I'm not sure if there are scenes present in the premiere that are now missing altogether.

By comparison, there are scenes that we know were removed from the premiere cut of The Clansman when it was altered for general release as The Birth of a Nation.

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