Flicker Alley

Vinegar Syndrome, Deaf Crocodile, Imprint, Cinema Guild, and more.
Post Reply
Message
Author
User avatar
zedz
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 7:24 pm

Re: Flicker Alley

#451 Post by zedz » Mon Apr 16, 2012 4:46 pm

That was an unfortunate outburst of David's part. If the score was contractually tied to the restoration, why not just say so? Presumably that's why the disc includes an alternative score (with the earlier restoration) in the first place. Clearly they wanted to present viewers with a choice, and this was the only way they could legally do it, so why not just admit it and move on?

User avatar
TMDaines
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2009 1:01 pm
Location: Stretford, Manchester

Re: Flicker Alley

#452 Post by TMDaines » Mon Apr 16, 2012 6:10 pm

The stupid thing is that I'm sure there will be a rip on the net at some point (if not already) of the colour version with a choice of all three audio tracks. Another classic example of the paying customer having to settle for a more restrictive experience than that of those who obtain it by other means.

If you watch Blu-rays on your PC you could always rip the audio tracks and then use MPC or something watch the colour version with the ripped classic score.

User avatar
Documaniaque
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 6:06 pm

Re: Flicker Alley

#453 Post by Documaniaque » Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:11 pm

lubitsch wrote: FALL OF THE ROMANOV DYNASTY is less thrilling, but more or less exactly the same quality as the British DVD which had an additional audio commentary though.

SALT FOR SVANETIA is also rather a modest looking transfer, but there's still no competition around. A new transfer would have been fine.
Thanks for these comments. The Eureka Romanov DVD (which I bought) had atrocious burned-in subs which sometimes blocked the entire screen, as well as (if I remember correctly) English intertitles instead of the original Russian. Someone said the Flickr Alley disc was the same transfer, is that true in this respect also or would you say it's different? I also read that Shub re-cut the film in the 60's or 70's, and highly suspect this is the later version (though it may be the only existing one at this point). If anyone cares, the version you can watch for free on the Mosfilm website looks pretty nice.

Does Svanetia have the original Russian intertitles? Hard-subbed or not? Any music? As you say it's the first DVD ever of this film, so there's no competition...

User avatar
gcgiles1dollarbin
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2010 3:38 am

Re: Flicker Alley

#454 Post by gcgiles1dollarbin » Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:44 am

zedz wrote:That was an unfortunate outburst of David's part. If the score was contractually tied to the restoration, why not just say so? Presumably that's why the disc includes an alternative score (with the earlier restoration) in the first place. Clearly they wanted to present viewers with a choice, and this was the only way they could legally do it, so why not just admit it and move on?
He did, two weeks prior, here. But then, as if it were not already clear, others harped on the exclusivity issue. Thus, the hissy fit, I'm guessing. Still, bad form, as you say.

Jonathan S
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2008 3:31 am
Location: Somerset, England

Re: Flicker Alley

#455 Post by Jonathan S » Wed Apr 18, 2012 3:07 am

gcgiles1dollarbin wrote:He did, two weeks prior, here. But then, as if it were not already clear, others harped on the exclusivity issue. Thus, the hissy fit, I'm guessing. Still, bad form, as you say.
But, once they knew Flicker Alley was not to blame, those who "harped on the exclusivity issue" acknowledged that and even expressed sympathy for them. In my case - and it was the first time I'd joined the discussion after biting my tongue for weeks - I was politely seeking to understand the commercial rationale behind the exclusivity from someone on a public forum who was closely involved in the project (though not I assume in the legal negotiations) and to suggest that an alternative score would have resulted in additional sales.

I didn't put it like this to Shepard, but are the people buying this release only or mainly for AIR such airheads that they will only do so if there is no possibility of them accidentally hearing another track, even if AIR remained the default? My interpretation of a later post by someone who talked to Serge Bromberg about it is that the mysterious people funding this project evidently thought the answer to that would be "yes". AIR, and nothing but AIR, or no money.

I think at least one of the other Nitrateville posters did go over the top a little, but I was still astonished at Shepard's reply. It must be comforting for Flicker Alley that they are so financially healthy their "survival does not depend" on some of their core customers.

User avatar
gcgiles1dollarbin
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2010 3:38 am

Re: Flicker Alley

#456 Post by gcgiles1dollarbin » Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:44 am

I imagine it's a case of pop music industry conditions (perhaps this kind of contract is pro forma for successful artists) colliding with the non-industry of film preservation that, sadly, is always on the dole. I agree, by the way, that some of the contributors were sympathetic to the situation, yourself included. I guess 500K dampens the preservationist's instinct for hard bargaining.

User avatar
MichaelB
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:20 pm
Location: Worthing
Contact:

Re: Flicker Alley

#457 Post by MichaelB » Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:48 am

The problem with restoring silent films is that it's hard if not impossible to recoup the investment purely through DVD/Blu-ray sales - that's why the BFI launched a public appeal for £1 million to restore the nine Hitchcock silents, because there's no way that restorations of Champagne or The Farmer's Wife can make back that money in sales alone.

So if someone offers you $500,000 for a restoration and the only stipulation is a music track that can be switched off, you'd be mad not to take it - so I have every sympathy with Flicker Alley.

User avatar
gcgiles1dollarbin
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2010 3:38 am

Re: Flicker Alley

#458 Post by gcgiles1dollarbin » Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:17 pm

Agreed. And it could have been worse, too, as far as French pop artists go: imagine Daft Punk or Phoenix trying their hands... Talk about cognitive dissonance.
EDIT/CLARIFICATION: I like Daft Punk and Phoenix (and AIR, for that matter), but I don't think I want to hear their silent film scores.

yoshimori
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 2:03 am
Location: LA CA

Re: Flicker Alley

#459 Post by yoshimori » Wed Apr 18, 2012 7:05 pm

Just saw the restoration at the DGA here in LA, having missed it in Cannes last year, and though I'm unfamiliar with Mr AIR's oeuvre and will not likely be exploring it further, I have to say I found it entirely appropriate, striking a right mood for most beats; indeed it's the least annoying score I've heard with this film, a film I've seen probably twenty times. Surprised at the stink it seems to have been caused by some, some of whom have apparently not even heard it with the film.

User avatar
Emak-Bakia
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2011 11:48 am

Re: Flicker Alley

#460 Post by Emak-Bakia » Thu Apr 19, 2012 1:00 am

Maybe this has been addressed previously, but is it only the steelbook of A Trip to the Moon that is limited or is this particular release altogether limited? I'm trying to decide if I should panic buy the steelbook now or if I can wait for an edition in standard packaging.

Jonathan S
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2008 3:31 am
Location: Somerset, England

Re: Flicker Alley

#461 Post by Jonathan S » Thu Apr 19, 2012 4:38 am

yoshimori wrote:Just saw the restoration at the DGA here in LA, having missed it in Cannes last year, and though I'm unfamiliar with Mr AIR's oeuvre and will not likely be exploring it further, I have to say I found it entirely appropriate, striking a right mood for most beats; indeed it's the least annoying score I've heard with this film, a film I've seen probably twenty times. Surprised at the stink it seems to have been caused by some, some of whom have apparently not even heard it with the film.
In my case, I have seen the film with the AIR score, without buying it. Even for a computer dunce like me, it was easy enough, but I didn't want to mention it on Nitrateville in case it lost Flicker Alley more sales - though after Shepard's declaration of indifference to that event it no longer worries me. I also did not want to get into discussing the score, as my objection has never been to its inclusion (I actually think it's a pretty good idea if it might attract younger people to silents), merely to its exclusion of something more in keeping with musical idioms of the early 1900s (an original published score even exists) and more dramatically or comically effective. Imagine if the restoration of Metropolis was only available with the Moroder score...

AIR do more or less get the hammer beats right in the factory scene and in some others follow the general mood, though I've heard better efforts by amateur one-man outfits on a synthesizer. But the dramatic landing on the moon, for example, is accompanied by music I'd consider more appropriate for a self-hypnosis class than such an exciting event. My general objection is that the music is totally anachronistic and for me entirely robs the film of its charm - it felt like watching someone deface a painting with a sharpie and was probably the most unpleasant 15 minutes I've ever experienced watching a film I've previously loved.

Others have said one can just turn off the music. I feel that would be like me saying to those who object to a bad blu-ray transfer, "Why don't you just watch it on DVD or VHS instead? You've still got the film." Probably I've missed the obvious and the speculation that AIR themselves were able to insist on exclusivity is correct. That struck me as such an incredible possibility that I immediately dismissed it. But I know nothing of the pop music industry, or maybe the 21st century generally, so I guess I should climb into my horse and buggy and head back to the crumbling Amberson mansion...

User avatar
manicsounds
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 10:58 pm
Location: Tokyo, Japan

Re: Flicker Alley

#462 Post by manicsounds » Sat Apr 21, 2012 8:46 am

Tried putting in the request for the "Trip To The Moon" replacement disc, and the charge is $4.95 for the replacement disc plus $10.00 shipping overseas? That's crazy, we have to PAY for the fixed disc?

I spent $29.99 already for it, and they want $14.95 more for their mistake? Sorry, but I'll be content with the audio track mishap...

User avatar
TMDaines
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2009 1:01 pm
Location: Stretford, Manchester

Re: Flicker Alley

#463 Post by TMDaines » Sat Apr 21, 2012 9:11 am

Initially I read that it was only $3.00 for a replacement and that was off-putting enough. Flicker Alley haven't exactly covered themselves in glory the last few weeks.

I'd just get a refund and send it back after stating that the disk is faulty and doesn't do what it says on the tin.

rwaits
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2004 12:24 pm

Re: Flicker Alley

#464 Post by rwaits » Sat Apr 21, 2012 5:58 pm

After so much great work I was completely willing to give FA a pass until reading that incredibly snobby comment. He's clearly frustrated, but wow, way to insult the hand that feeds.

User avatar
HerrSchreck
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2005 11:46 am

Re: Flicker Alley

#465 Post by HerrSchreck » Sat Apr 21, 2012 6:19 pm

I wouldn't want to play divide and conquer here, don't know that a dork like me even has the power to affect matters in such a way anyhow, but Shepard is more of a traveling producer so to speak, a journeyman rather than Flicker Alley in the flesh. I say this because the true face of FA, Jeff Massino, seems a genuinely good dude. Not like I sat around the sauna wrapped in a towel talking chick problems with him, but I have had some correspondence with him, and he seems a dynamite guy. I'm sure he's been living on ibuprofen and hot epsom salt squats since Shepard made that asshole fucking comment.

User avatar
MichaelB
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:20 pm
Location: Worthing
Contact:

Re: Flicker Alley

#466 Post by MichaelB » Sat Apr 21, 2012 6:24 pm

HerrSchreck wrote:I say this because the true face of FA, Jeff Massino, seems a genuinely good dude.
I've met him in person (albeit in a café rather than a sauna), and I absolutely endorse this.

User avatar
manicsounds
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 10:58 pm
Location: Tokyo, Japan

Re: Flicker Alley

#467 Post by manicsounds » Sat Apr 21, 2012 7:05 pm

rwaits wrote:After so much great work I was completely willing to give FA a pass until reading that incredibly snobby comment. He's clearly frustrated, but wow, way to insult the hand that feeds.
Didn't mean to sound snobby, but just frustrated that I'd have to pay 50% more than I already have for something clearly that's wrong on their part is not exactly fair. Other times I've had defective discs/products/etc, I did not have to pay extra. Sometimes I've even received a refund for it. Although I supported Flicker Alley by buying this set, knowing about the disc defect, I just don't get this.

By the way, it's $4.95 for the replacement disc for international customers (NOT including shipping), which I don't get either. Why is it a dollar more expensive for the same disc?

So I just read on Blu-ray.com that an international customer said that the $10 shipping charge is a mistake, and he was refunded the amount. I guess I'll go ahead with that. $4.95 is better than $14.95 then...)

User avatar
manicsounds
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 10:58 pm
Location: Tokyo, Japan

Re: Flicker Alley

#468 Post by manicsounds » Mon Apr 23, 2012 8:32 am

Inside 'my' copy.

Image

User avatar
TMDaines
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2009 1:01 pm
Location: Stretford, Manchester

Re: Flicker Alley

#469 Post by TMDaines » Mon Apr 23, 2012 11:26 am

You got an empty box?!

User avatar
perkizitore
Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2008 3:29 pm
Location: OOP is the only answer

Re: Flicker Alley

#470 Post by perkizitore » Mon Apr 23, 2012 11:58 am

I am frustrated with their attitude, does anyone know something about the French release?

User avatar
MichaelB
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:20 pm
Location: Worthing
Contact:

Re: Flicker Alley

#471 Post by MichaelB » Mon Apr 23, 2012 12:24 pm

Here you go - it looks very similar indeed to the Flicker Alley edition (may well be identical, in fact), but it doesn't appear to have English subtitles.

Which doesn't come as a surprise: I strongly suspect that was by mutual agreement with Flicker Alley.

Jonathan S
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2008 3:31 am
Location: Somerset, England

Re: Flicker Alley

#472 Post by Jonathan S » Mon Apr 23, 2012 1:54 pm

If that's the case, then it seems UK buyers have to be bilingual or multi-region blu-ray to fully appreciate this release.

A retrograde step when previous French issues from Lobster - also released in the US (in some cases by Flicker Alley) - were still English-friendly, e.g. Les Premiers Pas du Cinéma/Discovering Cinema.

User avatar
MichaelB
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:20 pm
Location: Worthing
Contact:

Re: Flicker Alley

#473 Post by MichaelB » Mon Apr 23, 2012 3:22 pm

Well, I don't know for certain that it isn't English-friendly, but a search on that page for 'anglais' drew a complete blank. And I suspect they'd have mentioned it in the sidebar.

Adam
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2007 8:29 pm
Location: Los Angeles CA
Contact:

Re: Flicker Alley

#474 Post by Adam » Mon Apr 23, 2012 3:39 pm

Jeff Masino is a great person, a friend, and Flicker Alley is basically him and one other person in the office. He works closely with Shepard & Bromberg for the DVDs & masterings.

User avatar
HerrSchreck
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2005 11:46 am

Re: Flicker Alley

#475 Post by HerrSchreck » Mon Apr 23, 2012 6:57 pm

Although on the other hand this whole thing just reminded me of the dustup on this thread a few years ago over the FA LA ROUE, and another FA ally (not Shepard) called SSHH went after me after I pointed out replaced titles over laid moving images in the film, and some members indicated they were going to cancel their pre-orders. . . So I became the villain of the moment.

Post Reply