Kino: D.W. Griffith collections
- What A Disgrace
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- Lino
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- What A Disgrace
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- HerrSchreck
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Re: Kino
The specs for the disc of Abraham Lincoln:
Nice to see an early sound American feature repro'd on disc with it's vintage pillarboxed AR. In fact, aside from German early sound films (Lang, Pabst, Sternberg), I don't know if I've seen this pillar boxing elsewhere. Least of all an American release of an American film. Not counting sonorized silents, of course.Abraham Lincoln | The Struggle
Director: D. W. Griffith
Starring: Hal Skelly, Walter Huston
Country: U.S.
Genres: Historical, Silent
Type: B&W
Year: 1930, 1931
Language: Silent w English Intertitles, Sound (The Struggle)
Length: 186 mins.
Aspect Ratio: 1.20:1 (1.33:1 The Struggle)
- domino harvey
- Dot Com Dom
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Re: Kino
This still on track for Nov 11? It'll be a surefire pickup in the DD sale if so
- HerrSchreck
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- domino harvey
- Dot Com Dom
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Re: Kino
Yikes, hopefully DD extends the sale's dates like they have the last two times so it'll be included!
- domino harvey
- Dot Com Dom
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Re: Kino
I got the second Griffith set in the mail today and it suffers from Six Moral Talesitis: the slipcase box was too big, so it was smooshed to death through no fault of the shipping. Beware all ye who order
- Yojimbo
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Re: Kino
I noticed with my Harold Lloyd boxset that the plastic cases had become wedged so tight in the box that I had difficulty getting any out of it.domino harvey wrote:I got the second Griffith set in the mail today and it suffers from Six Moral Talesitis: the slipcase box was too big, so it was smooshed to death through no fault of the shipping. Beware all ye who order
- ianthemovie
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Re: Kino: D.W. Griffith collections
Can anyone say what musical score is used on Kino's version of Birth of a Nation? I can't seem to find any information about it here or elsewhere (Kino's website, DVDBeaver, etc.). The version I currently own, which is an ultra-cheap version put out by "Alpha Video," uses a score of generic classical music of which I've been able to identify Beethoven's 6th Symphony--the entire thing, slapped onto most of Part I--and Dvorak's "New World" Symphony. Other than that, the disc isn't bad; the film itself looks comparable to the Image print, which (according to Beaver) is identical to the Kino, and it's the complete, uncut version. Basically, I'm thinking of upgrading to Kino but only if I can get confirmation that the score is superior (i.e., specially fitted to the film).
- htdm
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Re: Kino: D.W. Griffith collections
The version in the Griffith Masterworks collection is an original score by Joseph Carl Breil.
- HerrSchreck
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Re: Kino: D.W. Griffith collections
Isn't it a patchwork of pre-exsiting music from the film's narrative's era? I mean, Dixie is in the film. I always thought this was close to what was shown when the film toured.
- htdm
- Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 3:46 am
Re: Kino: D.W. Griffith collections
Yes, Breil samples period music in his score as does Robert Israel.
I remember hearing Gaylord Carter play for this many years ago in LA and thinking that it was much better than even the Carl Davis score.
I remember hearing Gaylord Carter play for this many years ago in LA and thinking that it was much better than even the Carl Davis score.
- Sloper
- Joined: Tue May 29, 2007 10:06 pm
Re: Kino: D.W. Griffith collections
About half the score was composed by Breil himself - one theme, which ended up being known as the 'Perfect Song' (I think it's the one from the love-making scenes) actually became very popular at the time. Supposedly, Griffith encountered Breil in early 1914 when the latter was conducting the score for Cabiria - possibly his own compilation rather than the brilliant Italian one that appears on Kino's edition of the film. The two argued a great deal, but Griffith was happy enough with Breil to get him to work on Intolerance as well.
Breil's score is repetitive at times, but really very effective and appropriate, and one of many things that makes this such an important and groundbreaking film. According to Melvyn Stokes [my info comes from him and Peter Kobel's book 'Silent Movies'] the very use of leit-motifs to identify different characters or recurring themes (e.g. the controversial 'motif of barbarism' which tends to introduce the blacks and mulatto villains) was innovative, drawing upon ideas promoted by Wagner in relation to the opera, and applying them to the cinema, helping to legitimate this new art form.
The score on the Kino edition is the same as on the old Image disc; I assume it's the same on the Eureka. It does the job, but sounds pretty naff, like it's being played by a tiny orchestra in somebody's cellar, quietly so the neighbours won't complain. Also, the original version apparently required a chorus, and there sure isn't one of those on the current recording - Ride of the Valkyries really ought to sound much more dramatic and terrifying than it does. Check out the Davis-arranged versions playing over the clips in Father of Film to see what this score was meant to sound like. Someone really needs to re-do this, because at the moment the score makes the film look even more like what it all too closely resembles (and indeed is): a nasty, stupid, racist bit of tat.
htdm - I've heard references to the Carl Davis score, did he actually compose one from scratch, or just re-arrange Breil? I take it his score is unavailable in any format?
Breil's score is repetitive at times, but really very effective and appropriate, and one of many things that makes this such an important and groundbreaking film. According to Melvyn Stokes [my info comes from him and Peter Kobel's book 'Silent Movies'] the very use of leit-motifs to identify different characters or recurring themes (e.g. the controversial 'motif of barbarism' which tends to introduce the blacks and mulatto villains) was innovative, drawing upon ideas promoted by Wagner in relation to the opera, and applying them to the cinema, helping to legitimate this new art form.
The score on the Kino edition is the same as on the old Image disc; I assume it's the same on the Eureka. It does the job, but sounds pretty naff, like it's being played by a tiny orchestra in somebody's cellar, quietly so the neighbours won't complain. Also, the original version apparently required a chorus, and there sure isn't one of those on the current recording - Ride of the Valkyries really ought to sound much more dramatic and terrifying than it does. Check out the Davis-arranged versions playing over the clips in Father of Film to see what this score was meant to sound like. Someone really needs to re-do this, because at the moment the score makes the film look even more like what it all too closely resembles (and indeed is): a nasty, stupid, racist bit of tat.
htdm - I've heard references to the Carl Davis score, did he actually compose one from scratch, or just re-arrange Breil? I take it his score is unavailable in any format?
Last edited by Sloper on Tue May 12, 2009 10:53 am, edited 2 times in total.
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- Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2008 3:31 am
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Re: Kino: D.W. Griffith collections
The score used for Photoplay's video version (for Channel Four Silents) was based on Breil's and the arranger was John Lanchbery, not Davis. On my off-air recording of this version, the Channel Four announcer actually apologises that it's by Lanchbery "not Carl Davis, as stated in the press"! I suppose it's possible Davis may have done one for live presentations, but it seems unlikely. Lanchbery's score for Photoplay's The Iron Horse is often mistakenly credited to Davis, too.Sloper wrote:htdm - I've heard references to the Carl Davis score, did he actually compose one from scratch, or just re-arrange Breil? I take it his score is unavailable in any format?
I believe the Lanchbery-Photoplay version was available on VHS. It was scheduled for DVD release as part of a Griffith set several years ago, but was pulled at the last minute along with the Hollywood series.
- HerrSchreck
- Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2005 11:46 am
Re: Kino: D.W. Griffith collections
So, to recap and reassert-- the score on the Kino disc is the score that originally went with the film when it toured.ianthemovie wrote:Can anyone say what musical score is used on Kino's version of Birth of a Nation? I can't seem to find any information about it here or elsewhere (Kino's website, DVDBeaver, etc.). The version I currently own, which is an ultra-cheap version put out by "Alpha Video," uses a score of generic classical music of which I've been able to identify Beethoven's 6th Symphony--the entire thing, slapped onto most of Part I--and Dvorak's "New World" Symphony. Other than that, the disc isn't bad; the film itself looks comparable to the Image print, which (according to Beaver) is identical to the Kino, and it's the complete, uncut version. Basically, I'm thinking of upgrading to Kino but only if I can get confirmation that the score is superior (i.e., specially fitted to the film).
- htdm
- Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 3:46 am
Re: Kino: D.W. Griffith collections
Thanks Jonathan S and Sloper for the informative posts - I wasn't aware that the Photoplay version of BOAN was released on VHS. It must have been in the UK. Stateside, the Photoplay version has aired on TCM at least once, which is where I first heard it.
- ianthemovie
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Re: Kino: D.W. Griffith collections
Thanks, all, for your clarification re: the Birth score. It's likely that I'll eventually get the Kino edition, not only for the superior score but also because my cheapo Alpha disc is an eyesore. If I hadn't found the film to be as interesting, I probably wouldn't care, but after watching it for the first time a few months ago I think I'd like to upgrade to a better version.
- ianthemovie
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Re: Kino: D.W. Griffith collections
Anyone know if there's another version of Broken Blossoms out there with a different score from the one by Joseph Turrin on the Kino disc? I seem to remember the score being much different in the version of the film I saw on TCM a few years ago--less synthesized and ugly-sounding. I also don't recall the gong/bell sounds being added to the shots of China at the beginning and end of the film.
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Re: Kino: D.W. Griffith collections
David Shepard's older DVD for Image uses an ancient orchestral score that you might prefer despite it being very low-fi. I can't recall how well synchronised it is (possibly adapted from an early sound reissue) as I sold my copy when I got the Kino, which has much better image quality. The best score I've heard for Broken Blossoms is the Carl Davis performance/adaptation of the 1919 original for the Photoplay edition but it's not available on a commercial DVD (I gather it was issued on laser). I still have the UK 1980s TV broadcast on VHS.
Although I normally hate synthesizer scores for silents, I found Turrin's better than most (bass boosting helps a little) but I'd certainly prefer the Davis married to Kino's transfer.
Although I normally hate synthesizer scores for silents, I found Turrin's better than most (bass boosting helps a little) but I'd certainly prefer the Davis married to Kino's transfer.
- htdm
- Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 3:46 am
Re: Kino: D.W. Griffith collections
I hung onto my Image Entertainment laserdisc of Broken Blossoms for the Davis score and the introduction by Lillian Gish.