Kino Lorber Studio Classics: Lost Highway

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domino harvey
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics: Lost Highway

#76 Post by domino harvey » Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:27 pm

Interesting clarification on the comment that they didn't initially go to Lynch about the extras:
I thought it was for Lynch. Doesn't he insist on approval, to the point of it being contractual

We didn't need his approval on the Wild at Heart packaging and extras when we released the film on DVD, only the studio's, so why would we think it would be different here. Like I said, not the norm.
The label also distanced themselves from Tim Lucas' response...

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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics: Lost Highway

#77 Post by tenia » Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:41 pm

domino harvey wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:45 pm
Tenia's bugbear is Blu-ray releases of non-recent transfers, so I get his response, but that doesn't mean this won't still be the best release of this film yet on disc. Kino did do work like color-correction to produce something more than factory line delivery of what we've already seen. Now, it may still not be enough, but I don't think Lucas' comments are so awful regardless.
It's not so much Lucas' comments are "awful", they're just not factual, while it does seem like he wanted precisely to settle things in a "matter-of-facts" manner. But by extrapolating a lot from Lynch's tweet and being hyperbolic about how "gorgeous" this master is (which we know isn't), he's not looking as authoritarian as he should, but more like doing some kind of PR job. You'd guess he knows how the movie is available on BD (hence not using the P&S reference) or that the current existing master is OK-ish but far from gorgeous. He should also know the current track record for Lynch's new restorations, and be able not to throw this strawman argument to deflect being stuck with an old master.

While I understand defending the disc as somebody who actually did see it, it just seems to me people who actually haven't seen it are more trustworthy about how good it's likely to look, and that's what bothering me. Moreover, while Kino might have done additional work (color correction, stability, cleaning), it won't change much PQ-wise in the grander scheme of things. It might be oh so slightly better, but using the same older transfer won't yield much latitude for improvement anyhow.


This more technically-minded point aside, I'm not sure who's at fault now. I never really thought Lynch's tweet was a good idea to begin with, but if KL got in touch with him to get it sorted, it seems like he didn't do it more because of possibly irrelevant factors. The movie could have been restored, and instead isn't, and then this tweet ? Lose-lose situation, really.

In any case though, it does remind how clearing this kind of things out can still be VERY complicated at times.

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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics: Lost Highway

#78 Post by Luke M » Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:07 pm

Would Lynch have to be addressed for a restoration? It seems Kino could have restored it, put it out even without any extras or input from Lynch and he'd be happy with it? This is maybe too simple of a take but it doesn't seem that complicated?

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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics: Lost Highway

#79 Post by domino harvey » Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:16 pm

I think they didn’t want to incur the cost of a restoration if he wasn’t on board for the process, probably because they were afraid he might do something like he just did and then they’d be out even more money

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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics: Lost Highway

#80 Post by mfunk9786 » Mon Jun 24, 2019 4:42 pm

Finch wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 6:07 pm
I also think it's not unreasonable for a director to want his film to look as good as possible, especially with something like Lost Highway.

Lynch didn't want the FWWM deleted scenes released until someone was ready to pay for the full restoration of these. Kino could have asked New Line and Criterion about their experiences with Lynch and how to approach this productively.

Kino come across as having been asleep at the wheel from the beginning: that Lynch is specific about what he wants and doesn't want on home video releases has been known for some time and they still didn't check the contract with Universal about bonus content stipulations from Lynch, effectively wasting money and the time of people involved. Then, according to their social media post, they only seem to have offered a whole new transfer of the film after their extras had been vetoed because they realised that a new transfer would be the only reason most fans of the film would even contemplate to buy their disc. As far as Lynch must be concerned: these guys just went ahead and commissioned extras that went specifically against his wishes and consent. That's what must have prompted the tweet though some people could argue he could have taken the high road and just not said anything. Maybe he's figuring that other labels will take this as a warning not to try circumvent his stipulations as to how his films are presented and curated on home video.

This very much looks like an atttempt to make quick bucks from the people who were less than gracious when the pitch issue on Bitter Moon came to light. I get why some people might think Lynch's tweet is a dick move, but I also think that Kino haven't handled this in an exemplary manner.
Just caught up on all this and I am 100% in Finch's camp. Sounds like Kino tried to get away with enough shenanigans that they should have known they couldn't get away with (and frankly, that sort of disorganization and presumption is the reason Kino is in no way Criterion's equal, they wouldn't pull that shit, and it seems like Shout! didn't either) that Lynch just iced them out. Good for him. I'm surprised by how many people here don't feel as though filmmakers should have the right to decide how their work is presented if they're contractually able to.

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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics: Lost Highway

#81 Post by peerpee » Mon Jun 24, 2019 4:58 pm

Hear hear. Kino should have pulled it.

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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics: Lost Highway

#82 Post by Finch » Mon Jun 24, 2019 5:02 pm

Given that KL's MO is to put these things out quickly, I continue to be inclined to think they wanted to get this out with as minimal fuss as possible, especially now that they have admitted that they didn't run their extras past Lynch for approval. Just because they didn't need approval a few years ago, doesn't mean that they couldn't have said to Lynch, hey here's what we are planning for Lost Highway, are you ok with this? Yes, he'd have still nixed the commentary, and I don't know what was planned for the booklet but if it wasn't on the cards already, they could have asked Lynch if, Criterion-style, they can reprint Chris Rodley's conversation with him about Lost Highway and include the trailer.

It'd be interesting to get clarification from Lynch's camp IF or when exactly Kino were reaching out to them about a 4k restoration. IF it was around the time of the acquisition from Universal, then it begs the question why they didn't bring up the issue of bonus content right there and then (I can't imagine KL's team not knowing Lynch's exacting demands beforehand) but IF they did reach out early and did offer a 4k resto and Lynch still said no, then that would be disappointing. I realise we're now fully in they said he said territory but since this is not the first KL snafu, I'm not convinced that this isn't a belated and failing attempt at saving face. Lucas's statement doesn't help them in any way either.
Last edited by Finch on Mon Jun 24, 2019 5:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics: Lost Highway

#83 Post by mfunk9786 » Mon Jun 24, 2019 5:06 pm

Just a little more shaking my fist at the clouds: If I had a contract that I got final approval on cover art, master, extras, etc and some company started e-mailing me to approve a bunch of stuff they just went ahead and did (some of which they went public about already, like that cover art) I wouldn't answer those e-mails either, because I'd have enough evidence already that they couldn't give a shit about my input or my wishes. At the end of the day, there'd be no Kino release of Lost Highway if David Lynch hadn't made Lost Highway, any boutique label worth their salt shouldn't be rushing through the process of a release like this. You know the reason we don't get those Wes Anderson Criterion discs exactly when we expect them? Because the label is patient and doesn't just start peppering his e-mail inbox trying to get him to sign off on a bunch of stuff he didn't want on the disc, they actually wait for him to free up time to work on the restoration, approve and suggest extras, etc. It's not complicated. Kino's whole "poor us" response to this is just further evidence that they couldn't give a shit less about what Lynch might have wanted this release to be.

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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics: Lost Highway

#84 Post by domino harvey » Mon Jun 24, 2019 5:14 pm

Kino paid the money for the rights. It's theirs. There's not another US version coming. I don't understand those who feel it's better that Lynch refused to be involved rather than him agreeing to supervise a new scan that everyone can see and enjoy. I get feeling protective of one's work, but I don't agree with his methodology with regards to this release, because him refusing to be involved wasn't going to stop the release from happening. He doesn't get to decide who releases this film, period. But he had opportunities to make the most of the situation, and apparently he declined. That's a good thing why? I don't think the bad faith readings of every facet of Kino Lorber's actions here are fair, either. Nothing they've shared, in the posts quoted here and elsewhere, sound that outrageous or unreasonable or negligent or "woe is me" or whatever else we're lobbing at them. Literally no one is saying they are on par with Criterion, or at least no one on this forum. But that doesn't mean they're Echo Bridge either.

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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics: Lost Highway

#85 Post by mfunk9786 » Mon Jun 24, 2019 5:23 pm

He has all but stopped the release from happening, which means that it is now in essence an Echo Bridge release. If that's what people want, a barebones old restoration, they can buy it. But I have no problem with a filmmaker not calling the bluff of a company that's trying to rush him through the process of a home video release of one of his films without even doing their research (can't get over how tone deaf that "first commentary ever on a Lynch release!" stuff is) on what that filmmaker might want. Kino basically said "Hey, we made you dinner with a bunch of ingredients you don't like/are allergic to. Don't like it? Well, come in quick and make your own dinner then, because either way you're eating at 6 PM sharp!" Terrible approach in an effort to get this disc out as quickly as possible, and exactly why Lynch has this stuff in his contract to begin with. It's wrong (in my view) for consumers to expect a "premium" release even if that release is in some way delivered against the wishes of the filmmaker. Kino has rights to the home video release of the film, but it's not "theirs" because of Lynch's contract, and acting like it is "theirs" is what got them into this mess in the first place if I had to guess.

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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics: Lost Highway

#86 Post by domino harvey » Mon Jun 24, 2019 5:28 pm

It's obvious in retrospect Kino should have done more diligence with regards to the extras snafu. Given that Lynch had no refusal rights for their release of Wild at Heart, I can see where confusion or optimism from the label may have come into play in a way that makes them look amateurish. But can you really then blame Kino Lorber for not deciding to pump more money into a release where the filmmaker has final say but is giving nothing but the silent treatment and won't even agree to okay a new transfer? To use your parallel, Lynch's tweet and its implication is like complaining that you weren't invited to dinner at all. I could understand Lynch not endorsing the release. But he didn't stay silent, his tweet intentionally sabotaged it in a way that doesn't reveal that the label tried to secure the very thing he is criticizing them for lacking.

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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics: Lost Highway

#87 Post by mfunk9786 » Mon Jun 24, 2019 5:39 pm

They tried to secure his involvement on their terms and their timetable, though. The fact that this is coming anyway with an old transfer and budget-tier cover art means they don't care about anything but making a quick buck on it. And I think that's Lynch's problem in the first place. Whether he's being too judgmental of Kino's intentions or unreasonably protective of his work isn't for me to say, but the fact that they're still putting this out says everything I need to know about what their intentions are.

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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics: Lost Highway

#88 Post by domino harvey » Mon Jun 24, 2019 5:44 pm

They didn't alter the cover art because it already had Lynch's approval. All of the negative changes that got made to this release were because they couldn't get Lynch to weigh in at all, and had to revert to things he'd already okayed for the DVD release. How long do you expect KL to sit on their rights before releasing a title? Several months of hearing nothing makes it reasonable to assume that you're not ever going to get a response, and you can't make money on no release at all. I don't think it's fair to criticize a business' "intentions" for wanting to recoup their investment by releasing something

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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics: Lost Highway

#89 Post by mfunk9786 » Mon Jun 24, 2019 5:47 pm

domino harvey wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 5:44 pm
They didn't alter the cover art because it already had Lynch's approval.
I mentioned the cover art because they went public with this without contractually obligated approval

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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics: Lost Highway

#90 Post by yoloswegmaster » Mon Jun 24, 2019 5:47 pm

I like David Lynch's films but Jesus Christ, the nuthugging is going way too strong here.

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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics: Lost Highway

#91 Post by mfunk9786 » Mon Jun 24, 2019 5:48 pm

Thanks for your input on my "nuthugging," yoloswegmaster, but if Iñárritu had this arrangement for a release of one of his films my opinion would remain completely unchanged. Filmmakers need more control over the public presentation of their work wherever they can get it, not less.

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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics: Lost Highway

#92 Post by domino harvey » Mon Jun 24, 2019 5:50 pm

As would I for Soderbergh. I think this comes down to members disagreeing with/on the nature and details of the conflict, not hero worship (or label worship, though the idea of a Kino Lorber fanboy is a bit much for me to fathom)

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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics: Lost Highway

#93 Post by Titus » Mon Jun 24, 2019 5:52 pm

mfunk9786 wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 5:39 pm
They tried to secure his involvement on their terms and their timetable, though. The fact that this is coming anyway with an old transfer and budget-tier cover art means they don't care about anything but making a quick buck on it. And I think that's Lynch's problem in the first place. Whether he's being too judgmental of Kino's intentions or unreasonably protective of his work isn't for me to say, but the fact that they're still putting this out says everything I need to know about what their intentions are.
It's very possible I've missed this, but how do we know they were holding him to their terms and their timetable? Based on the KL Insider post quoted on the last page, they reached out to Lynch for his involvement with the release, both in supervision of the transfer and approval of the extras they wanted to include, only to get no response in return. If that's accurate, I fail to see how they did anything wrong, at least at this stage.

Apparently they subsequently moved forward in producing the extras before discovering his approval was a contractual requirement. I guess I can see how Lynch would be sore about that, but it seems rather petty, and could have been avoided had he simply responded to one of a number of emails (again, provided KL Insider's post(s) are accurate).

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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics: Lost Highway

#94 Post by mfunk9786 » Mon Jun 24, 2019 5:52 pm

domino harvey wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 5:50 pm
(or label worship, though the idea of a Kino Lorber fanboy is a bit much for me to fathom)
Actual pic of Domino in his "Kino Lorber room":

Image

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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics: Lost Highway

#95 Post by domino harvey » Mon Jun 24, 2019 5:57 pm

Please, I wear my baseball cap brims to the side like the Fresh Prince or not at all

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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics: Lost Highway

#96 Post by Finch » Mon Jun 24, 2019 5:58 pm

Not saying it's better that Lynch refused to be involved. I'm only saying I understand why he is pissed off and why he chose not to.

And that new cover is hilarious.

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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics: Lost Highway

#97 Post by captveg » Mon Jun 24, 2019 6:00 pm

Kino has delayed their releases of Scorsese's Kundun and several Spike Lee films in order to try and get director involvement/approval, so I don't see why they wouldn't have done the same with Lynch if their inquiries hadn't been met with silence.

It's worth noting that the KL Insider recently commented that they may have to move forward with the Lee titles if his schedule doesn't allow for his involvement by the end of the summer, which suggests the type of licensing time frame they may have to worth with for the Universal titles.

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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics: Lost Highway

#98 Post by tenia » Mon Jun 24, 2019 6:07 pm

domino harvey wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 5:14 pm
Kino paid the money for the rights. It's theirs. There's not another US version coming. I don't understand those who feel it's better that Lynch refused to be involved rather than him agreeing to supervise a new scan that everyone can see and enjoy. I get feeling protective of one's work, but I don't agree with his methodology with regards to this release, because him refusing to be involved wasn't going to stop the release from happening. He doesn't get to decide who releases this film, period. But he had opportunities to make the most of the situation, and apparently he declined. That's a good thing why? I don't think the bad faith readings of every facet of Kino Lorber's actions here are fair, either. Nothing they've shared, in the posts quoted here and elsewhere, sound that outrageous or unreasonable or negligent or "woe is me" or whatever else we're lobbing at them. Literally no one is saying they are on par with Criterion, or at least no one on this forum. But that doesn't mean they're Echo Bridge either.
Just my 2 cents here, but I think there are 2 different "workflows" colliding here. There is the one you defend, which is that the current situation is lost for customers who aren't getting this new restoration while KL reached out to get one (or the extras too).
On the other hand, like mfunk indeed detailed, there is doing things in the proper order to make sure the logic behind what has been contractually agreed with the artist (the spirit of it, let's call that) is respected. In this regard, I totally understand what mfunk stated, and also understand how professionnally wise, this doesn't really make sense. It's like sneakily doing un-approved work only to expect the contact person to approve it because "look at all we've done already !" Yeah, sure, but if you'd have truly been thoughtful, you'd have come first to me. Before anything. Because otherwise, it does look either thoughtless or coercitive.

It does seem to me that both sides are "guilty". Probably not equally (but how precisely the balance is, we probably don't know), but still. KL probably got first the work done and THEN contacted Lynch when it should have been the other way around (due dilligence and all). Lynch could have been more understanding and let dogmatic reasons aside for the greater good.

To sum it up : while Lynch most likely could have been more flexible, it does seem these contracts are setup specifically to ensure people FIRST come to him BEFORE prepping up anything without his input, and KL seem to have done exactly the opposite.
domino harvey wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 5:50 pm
I think this comes down to members disagreeing with/on the nature and details of the conflict, not hero worship (or label worship, though the idea of a Kino Lorber fanboy is a bit much for me to fathom)
Most likely. Plus, I doubt what is public gives enough details of the BTS so that we could judge exactly each side's fault anyway.
Last edited by tenia on Mon Jun 24, 2019 6:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics: Lost Highway

#99 Post by Drucker » Mon Jun 24, 2019 6:16 pm

https://twitter.com/lingounbound/status ... 37184?s=21

Just saw this. If real, Peter Deming’s attempts to be involved went ignored.

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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics: Lost Highway

#100 Post by dwk » Mon Jun 24, 2019 6:17 pm

Lynch's ire may not have anything to do with Kino (well pre-special features) specifically. It may be he has issues with Universal licensing the film out without his consent or, if their rights expire in the next couple of years, them releasing a Blu-ray before he regains control of the film.

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