Kino Lorber Studio Classics: Lost Highway
- Forrest Taft
- Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2007 8:34 pm
- Location: Stavanger, Norway
Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions
He also refused to let TT put the deleted scenes on their Wild at Heart disc. But must have been OK with Scream Factory including them.
- tenia
- Ask Me About My Bassoon
- Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 11:13 am
Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions
The way his tweet is phrased leaves me perplexed. It looks like the movie has been restored from the OCN, but Kino isn't putting this out from this source for whatever reason. It does seem like Lynch wouldn't make a technical mistake in the way it's phrasing it, but maybe that's just it, though.
In any case, I don't understand too why he hasn't been that vocal with Wild at Heart's release.
In any case, I don't understand too why he hasn't been that vocal with Wild at Heart's release.
- dwk
- Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2010 6:10 pm
Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions
I'm pretty sure no extras is in his contract.domino harvey wrote: ↑Sat Jun 22, 2019 2:35 pmI wonder if Lynch has the no DVD extras thing in all his licenses like Woody Allen, because if not I bet KL is extra pissed they dropped the Tim Lucas commentary to please him
I wonder if Universal's rights are going to expire soon-ish and Lynch will be involved with that release.
- Finch
- Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 5:09 pm
- Location: Edinburgh, UK
Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions
But if he stipulates no extras in his contract, why do Criterion's releases have them? Is it one rule for studio licences and another for boutique labels? Criterion's and Shout's sub-licencing is still covered by his contract with the studios, no?
Perhaps he wanted Kino and/or Universal to pony up for a full-scale 2k/4k restoration of Lost Highway and they declined which meant, to Lynch, that the Kino BD was DOA?
Perhaps he wanted Kino and/or Universal to pony up for a full-scale 2k/4k restoration of Lost Highway and they declined which meant, to Lynch, that the Kino BD was DOA?
- Luke M
- Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 9:21 pm
Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions
It's my hunch that swo has the right take on this one.
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- Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2005 3:31 pm
- Location: Indiana
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions
It's clear he's fine with DVD extras as far as documentaries and other video content, he appears in almost all of it on his releases and is obviously generous with his time in that regard. Just doesn't do commentaries and doesn't allow for chapter stops which is fine.
He's probably more angry at Universal than either KL for getting the rights and moving on releasing something taken from an outdated master, or Criterion for not getting the rights themselves.
Bottom line is I hope for the same thing he does, that a release (by whoever) given his full endorsement comes out. It might be my favorite movie of his, it speaks so much to the dark side of the 90's that it works as a bizarre nostalgia trip as much as it does anything else he's done.
He's probably more angry at Universal than either KL for getting the rights and moving on releasing something taken from an outdated master, or Criterion for not getting the rights themselves.
Bottom line is I hope for the same thing he does, that a release (by whoever) given his full endorsement comes out. It might be my favorite movie of his, it speaks so much to the dark side of the 90's that it works as a bizarre nostalgia trip as much as it does anything else he's done.
- soundchaser
- Leave Her to Beaver
- Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2016 12:32 am
Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions
This was apparently posted on Facebook (although I can’t verify the source):
If true, it seems like Kino tried to do the best they could with the release and were shot down at every opportunity.We wanted him to be happy with the release, so we reached out to him to do a new 4K transfer from the original camera negative, it ended up costing us all our extras, including the great Tim Lucas commentary. And now this? Last year I tried to approach him at the Saturn Awards, so we could discuss the upcoming release in person, but his bodyguard blocked me and told me Mr. Lynch does not want be bothered.
- domino harvey
- Dot Com Dom
- Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:42 pm
Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics: Lost Highway
Life is such a whirlwind. In the same month I’m forced to both criticize (Bitter Moon) and defend this label. Is it possible that Lynch doesn’t understand there won’t be another US Blu-Ray until this license ends? That KL is more or less the equivalent of Criterion in terms of business and releasing models? And why would any label that isn’t Criterion ever want to risk working on a Lynch release going forward if there’s the real possibility that he’s just going to tell his fans not to buy it? Thus Lynch’s tweet ends up being bad for everyone
- soundchaser
- Leave Her to Beaver
- Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2016 12:32 am
Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics: Lost Highway
For all the label’s past issues, it’s very frustrating to see such gleeful Kino-bashing and reports of pre-orders being canceled on other venues like Reddit when Lynch appears to be at fault here. I hope Tim Lucas decides to release his commentary now, at least, since apparently nothing was gained by dropping it.
EDIT: Although I suppose I shouldn’t be surprised, given how blinkered some of those Criterion subreddit posters are about any Blu-Ray without a spine number attached.
EDIT: Although I suppose I shouldn’t be surprised, given how blinkered some of those Criterion subreddit posters are about any Blu-Ray without a spine number attached.
- dwk
- Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2010 6:10 pm
Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics: Lost Highway
Lynch can be prickly to deal with. Remember in the early 00s he stopped talks with Criterion for Eraserhead when a rumor about them releasing it got out.
About the commentary, contractually Kino couldn't include it. Even so, it was recorded after Lynch decided to not be involved in this release, so I doubt the authenticity of that alleged Facebook post.
About the commentary, contractually Kino couldn't include it. Even so, it was recorded after Lynch decided to not be involved in this release, so I doubt the authenticity of that alleged Facebook post.
- Boosmahn
- Joined: Mon Sep 04, 2017 10:08 pm
Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics: Lost Highway
^ Although we can assume his attitude his changed, at least with Criterion, given that four titles have now been released by the label.
Lynch is clearly pissed about Kino getting the rights (which I can understand, after building a relationship with Criterion and maybe Shout!) but calling for the cancellation of pre-orders might be taking it a bit far. I think it's safe to say that Kino won't touch another one of his films after this...
Lynch is clearly pissed about Kino getting the rights (which I can understand, after building a relationship with Criterion and maybe Shout!) but calling for the cancellation of pre-orders might be taking it a bit far. I think it's safe to say that Kino won't touch another one of his films after this...
- tenia
- Ask Me About My Bassoon
- Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 11:13 am
Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics: Lost Highway
True enough : who cares who ends up commissioning and releasing a 4K OCN-sourced restoration, Kino or Criterion ? For all we know, Kino is quite competent when getting new 4K restorations done, so if all Lynch wanted was getting rid of this old master and having a new resto done, that was the shot at it.domino harvey wrote: ↑Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:11 amThat KL is more or less the equivalent of Criterion in terms of business and releasing models?
- FrauBlucher
- Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 8:28 pm
- Location: Greenwich Village
Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics: Lost Highway
After reading through the different messages coming out I tend to agree with swo. It sounds like, to me, he is pissed at Universal for not giving Criterion a chance to bid or even counterbid, and maybe ignoring his wishes that the film end up with Criterion. Now he is in the position of saboteur. He is a persnickety sort which Criterion knows all to well. So he’ll let this title sit in this position for as long as it takes for him to get what he wants. I can’t say this is a surprising development. Plus, I also can’t say he is 100% to blame as the other players in this have their own agendas and should not be considered virtuous.
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics: Lost Highway
Are the licenses that iron-clad? If this anti-endorsement is reflected in the sales, wouldn't KL just become more motivated to cut their losses and give it to someone else?domino harvey wrote: ↑Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:11 amIs it possible that Lynch doesn’t understand there won’t be another US Blu-Ray until this license ends?
- Finch
- Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 5:09 pm
- Location: Edinburgh, UK
Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics: Lost Highway
His tweet is all over social media related to his work. I'm surprised that Kino bothered to commission a commentary in the first place. Had they done their due dilligence they'd have known that he doesn't allow commentaries. Their FB post makes it sound like they only contemplated a 4k resto after he vetoed their bonus content. Frankly, they should have done that from the beginning if they really didn't consider it then. Lynch would likely have been more forthcoming about any other content on the disc in that case. Let's face it: to put a commentary and one or two bonus features to accompany an old print doesn't come across as a concerted effort to produce the best possible release of any film, let alone from a director of Lynch's stature and for a film that hasn't had a truly great transfer anywhere. If I liked the film I'd have bought a copy even if it had "just" been a 4k restoration and nothing else on the disc.
If I was Kino, I'd probably feel tempted just to cancel the whole thing: the number of units they can expect to shift has got to be at the low end and it might not be enough to offset the losses already incurred. I mean, the only people this release would appeal to are completists who are happy to have a copy to tide them over until something better comes along. I don't know if this scenario would be possible but could Kino off-load their sublicence to Criterion in exchange for their expenditures?
If I was Kino, I'd probably feel tempted just to cancel the whole thing: the number of units they can expect to shift has got to be at the low end and it might not be enough to offset the losses already incurred. I mean, the only people this release would appeal to are completists who are happy to have a copy to tide them over until something better comes along. I don't know if this scenario would be possible but could Kino off-load their sublicence to Criterion in exchange for their expenditures?
- domino harvey
- Dot Com Dom
- Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:42 pm
Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics: Lost Highway
If I was KL, I would hold onto Lost Highway in perpetuity out of spite and just renew the license (first dibs at which I imagine is part of the existing agreement) forever
- knives
- Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:49 pm
Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics: Lost Highway
Especially since with the controversy it is probably going to sell more copies then without.
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- Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2017 5:31 pm
Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics: Lost Highway
Despite his age it sounds like David Lynch, like James Cameron, is a child when it comes to home video releases of his films. Can these 70-year-old man-children get their egos out of the way and just allow labels or studios to release definitive blu ray editions of their films? The people who end up screwed over are fans (you know, lower class consumers) who actually want to buy these movies and yet it sounds like Lost Highway is getting a less than ideal release while True Lies and The Abyss still wallow on non-anamorphic DVD editions. Maybe it's the only thing these sad, miserable people have left to hold on to, the idea that they have power over others.
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- Joined: Fri May 18, 2018 3:07 pm
Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics: Lost Highway
David Lynch behaving like a petulant ass when things don't go according to his ridiculously exacting standards and very high compensation fees? I NEVER saw that coming.
- dwk
- Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2010 6:10 pm
Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics: Lost Highway
There is nothing childish about Lynch or Cameron wanting their films presented how they want them presented.
Given how the Kino Brick situation shook out, I seriously doubt that Kino was ever going to try and create a new 4K master for this. This was likely strike 1 in Lynch's eyes. Trying to include a critical commentary and other unapproved extras was strike 2 and 3.
Given how the Kino Brick situation shook out, I seriously doubt that Kino was ever going to try and create a new 4K master for this. This was likely strike 1 in Lynch's eyes. Trying to include a critical commentary and other unapproved extras was strike 2 and 3.
- Boosmahn
- Joined: Mon Sep 04, 2017 10:08 pm
Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics: Lost Highway
I have no idea why Kino thought that Lynch would approve an audio commentary in the first place. The man doesn't even include chapter stops when he can help it.
- tenia
- Ask Me About My Bassoon
- Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 11:13 am
Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics: Lost Highway
The issue remains that we don't know how all these elements came on the timeline. It might be that this isn't down to wanting movies presented how they want them to be, but something in the contracts and licences that haven't been given proper diligence. Or it could be it was, but somehow not in a convincing manner. Or indeed, that Lynch has a very specific relationship with Criterion and that he expected Lost Highway to go to them and get the restoration, while it didn't and ended up with a pre-existing master.
Who knows except them.
But it's a very different case from Cameron, who simply is an extreme control freak who could have externalised his movies' restorations like anybody else but seemingly doesn't want to, yet also doesn't prioritise it, hence the quite limbo-esque current results for some of them. I guess we should rather be lucky to have had some of them restored, because they currently look like the exceptions rather than the rules. But maybe in 2025, Abyss will be done, and we might move on to True Lies, but then, he might still be working on Avatar Humpteen.
Who knows except them.
But it's a very different case from Cameron, who simply is an extreme control freak who could have externalised his movies' restorations like anybody else but seemingly doesn't want to, yet also doesn't prioritise it, hence the quite limbo-esque current results for some of them. I guess we should rather be lucky to have had some of them restored, because they currently look like the exceptions rather than the rules. But maybe in 2025, Abyss will be done, and we might move on to True Lies, but then, he might still be working on Avatar Humpteen.
- FrauBlucher
- Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 8:28 pm
- Location: Greenwich Village
Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics: Lost Highway
If this is the scenario then it’s big time incompetence amongst the legal departments of all parties involved. It reminds me of TT trying to jam a commentary on to the Woody Allen film. Then trying to pass off blame, instead of doing their own due diligence. Unless TT was trying to pull a fast one, which that’s what it felt like to me. Not sure this is exactly the same but it’s close.tenia wrote:The issue remains that we don't know how all these elements came on the timeline. It might be that this isn't down to wanting movies presented how they want them to be, but something in the contracts and licences that haven't been given proper diligence.
- tenia
- Ask Me About My Bassoon
- Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 11:13 am
Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics: Lost Highway
This definitely reminded me of this kind of situation, indeed.
- Finch
- Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 5:09 pm
- Location: Edinburgh, UK
Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics: Lost Highway
I also think it's not unreasonable for a director to want his film to look as good as possible, especially with something like Lost Highway.
Lynch didn't want the FWWM deleted scenes released until someone was ready to pay for the full restoration of these. Kino could have asked New Line and Criterion about their experiences with Lynch and how to approach this productively.
Kino come across as having been asleep at the wheel from the beginning: that Lynch is specific about what he wants and doesn't want on home video releases has been known for some time and they still didn't check the contract with Universal about bonus content stipulations from Lynch, effectively wasting money and the time of people involved. Then, according to their social media post, they only seem to have offered a whole new transfer of the film after their extras had been vetoed because they realised that a new transfer would be the only reason most fans of the film would even contemplate to buy their disc. As far as Lynch must be concerned: these guys just went ahead and commissioned extras that went specifically against his wishes and consent. That's what must have prompted the tweet though some people could argue he could have taken the high road and just not said anything. Maybe he's figuring that other labels will take this as a warning not to try circumvent his stipulations as to how his films are presented and curated on home video.
This very much looks like an atttempt to make quick bucks from the people who were less than gracious when the pitch issue on Bitter Moon came to light. I get why some people might think Lynch's tweet is a dick move, but I also think that Kino haven't handled this in an exemplary manner.
Lynch didn't want the FWWM deleted scenes released until someone was ready to pay for the full restoration of these. Kino could have asked New Line and Criterion about their experiences with Lynch and how to approach this productively.
Kino come across as having been asleep at the wheel from the beginning: that Lynch is specific about what he wants and doesn't want on home video releases has been known for some time and they still didn't check the contract with Universal about bonus content stipulations from Lynch, effectively wasting money and the time of people involved. Then, according to their social media post, they only seem to have offered a whole new transfer of the film after their extras had been vetoed because they realised that a new transfer would be the only reason most fans of the film would even contemplate to buy their disc. As far as Lynch must be concerned: these guys just went ahead and commissioned extras that went specifically against his wishes and consent. That's what must have prompted the tweet though some people could argue he could have taken the high road and just not said anything. Maybe he's figuring that other labels will take this as a warning not to try circumvent his stipulations as to how his films are presented and curated on home video.
This very much looks like an atttempt to make quick bucks from the people who were less than gracious when the pitch issue on Bitter Moon came to light. I get why some people might think Lynch's tweet is a dick move, but I also think that Kino haven't handled this in an exemplary manner.