Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

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Randall Maysin
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#2451 Post by Randall Maysin » Fri Nov 01, 2019 11:45 am

How do this forum's rules define the difference in decorum between calling someone clueless in the rudest (and most presumptuous) way possible, and calling someone stupid in the rudest (and most presumptuous) way possible? The finer points elude me.

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Boosmahn
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#2452 Post by Boosmahn » Fri Nov 01, 2019 11:46 am

It takes some... err... courage to call a moderator stupid and then announce one of your upcoming releases a minute later.

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Rayon Vert
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#2453 Post by Rayon Vert » Fri Nov 01, 2019 11:48 am

I thought Kino had said they were putting a stop to interacting with fans?

That was pretty dumb.

Glowingwabbit
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#2454 Post by Glowingwabbit » Fri Nov 01, 2019 1:04 pm

So wait, Kat Ellinger (British and female) is not suited to do a commentary for a British film featuring with Oscar-winning performance by the lead actress?
I dont know what this was all about as I was clearly using Easy Living as my example which is neither British nor did it win Jean Arthur an Oscar.

Ive never seen Room at the Top so I have no opinion on that and my initial comment was only sparked my seeing her name pop up on what seems like every other release and having been disappointed with her on Easy Living (again I like Kat Ellinger when she talks about films shes more passionate about).

But it's probably just as well Kl insider is banned as they clearly couldnt handle any level of criticism without flyong off the handle.

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MichaelB
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#2455 Post by MichaelB » Fri Nov 01, 2019 1:17 pm

Randall Maysin wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 11:45 am
How do this forum's rules define the difference in decorum between calling someone clueless in the rudest (and most presumptuous) way possible, and calling someone stupid in the rudest (and most presumptuous) way possible? The finer points elude me.
My rule of thumb is that you can call an individual post stupid (since there's clear supporting evidence), but not extend that to a blanket statement about its author (much more contentious).

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Finch
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#2456 Post by Finch » Fri Nov 01, 2019 1:26 pm

I wasn't singling out Kat Ellinger either and was talking in general terms since Pinkerton's Robbery track came in for criticism too.

Robin Davies
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#2457 Post by Robin Davies » Fri Nov 01, 2019 2:30 pm

Randall Maysin wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 11:45 am
How do this forum's rules define the difference in decorum between calling someone clueless in the rudest (and most presumptuous) way possible, and calling someone stupid in the rudest (and most presumptuous) way possible? The finer points elude me.
I don't see the distinction either. Is Kino Insider seriously being banned for this? My doubts about the way this forum is run are multiplying...

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domino harvey
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#2458 Post by domino harvey » Fri Nov 01, 2019 2:42 pm

If the banning of a label rep who solely used this forum to hawk the wares of his employer makes you feel there is a chasm of insight now missing, you can always enjoy his posts on the Blu-ray.com forum. Though if you think the moderation here is bad, best of luck to ya over there!

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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#2459 Post by Cremildo » Fri Nov 01, 2019 2:49 pm

I wish the Blu-ray.com forum moderators would ban the KLI there as well, but there's clearly a considerable contingent of users who are masochistic and genuinely appreciate the Insider's rudeness, so there's that.

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MichaelB
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#2460 Post by MichaelB » Fri Nov 01, 2019 2:51 pm

Cremildo wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 2:49 pm
I wish the Blu-ray.com forum moderators would ban the KLI there as well, but there's clearly a considerable contingent of users who are masochistic and genuinely appreciate the Insider's rudeness, so there's that.
Whereas here, you can even slag off these forums on Blu-ray.com and get away with it, because we believe in freedom of speech.

Seriously, it is actually pretty hard to get banned from here - it's rarely a first-offence situation.

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cdnchris
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#2461 Post by cdnchris » Fri Nov 01, 2019 3:03 pm

You really have to go out of your way to get banned here, you're more likely to get a temporary ban at worst. Although if it's someone who only posts here to advertise their stuff, gets hotheaded because of a suggestion or a criticism of their product, and then starts calling someone names because of it, then yeah, that's pushing it.

Robin Davies
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#2462 Post by Robin Davies » Fri Nov 01, 2019 3:20 pm

cdnchris wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 3:03 pm
You really have to go out of your way to get banned here, you're more likely to get a temporary ban at worst. Although if it's someone who only posts here to advertise their stuff, gets hotheaded because of a suggestion or a criticism of their product, and then starts calling someone names because of it, then yeah, that's pushing it.
I don't see how calling someone "stupid" in direct response to being called "clueless" is "going out of their way to get banned".

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domino harvey
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#2463 Post by domino harvey » Fri Nov 01, 2019 3:22 pm

Mod note here: We do see how at first glance this may seem like double-standards, but looking at one post does not always give the full picture of recurrent issues held with a poster. There have been long-standing problems with the posting tenor and treatment of other users from Kino Lorber Insider, and this infraction may have had different results with other supporting evidence. As Chris says above, there are other things under consideration when making a decision like this, and this was merely the proverbial needle for KLI.

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tenia
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#2464 Post by tenia » Fri Nov 01, 2019 3:32 pm

MichaelB wrote:
Cremildo wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 2:49 pm
I wish the Blu-ray.com forum moderators would ban the KLI there as well, but there's clearly a considerable contingent of users who are masochistic and genuinely appreciate the Insider's rudeness, so there's that.
Whereas here, you can even slag off these forums on Blu-ray.com and get away with it, because we believe in freedom of speech.

Seriously, it is actually pretty hard to get banned from here - it's rarely a first-offence situation.
So many memories coming back from there reading back about my then-recent ban there.

Without flattery, we already discussed the tone this forum can have, but it's obvious the mod here is way more casual but on the other hand, it can also be way more on-point when there is a real need for mod. It's clear many exchanges that happened on blu-ray.com would have never passed mod here while many quiet cleanings there wouldn't have either, which is ironic considering it's the people over there who complains about the mod here.

That's why I prefer the better transparency here and certainly don't regret blu-ray.com in this regard.

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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#2465 Post by Cremildo » Fri Nov 01, 2019 3:39 pm

MichaelB wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 2:51 pm
Whereas here, you can even slag off these forums on Blu-ray.com and get away with it, because we believe in freedom of speech.
I'm sure you think that's some sort of gotcha! moment, but it'd have been more apropos had you come up with more recent examples of me directly slandering these boards to prove whatever petty point you're trying to make. I've been accessing these forums and participating in it more frequently in the last one or two years, despite having been registered for longer than that, and it goes without saying that I have no need or desire to criticize it anymore as that temporary ban is a thing of the past and I haven't given mods here reason to repeat it. I often use these boards as a source for news and other assorted info on Blu-ray.com and give them due credit.

Ironically, I've seen you slag me off behind my back in one of the Infighting and Navel Gazing threads for the very same reason, and I let it slide then because it was so bizarre having a user whom I never talked to harbor such an animosity motivated by a two-year-old off-site comment.

So, kindly lay off my back.

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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#2466 Post by MichaelB » Fri Nov 01, 2019 3:54 pm

Cremildo wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 3:39 pm
I'm sure you think that's some sort of gotcha! moment
No, not at all. I know this sounds wildly unbelievable, but it's entirely true - I was going to bring up this example anyway, and had drafted most of a post when you obligingly popped up.

And there's no animosity at all - I'm just amused by the way that it paints a portrait of these forums that's so clearly at variance with the reality, while being posted in another forum that really does ban people for looking at the mods in a funny way. Perhaps if you stopped regarding it as some kind of personal attack you might be able to appreciate the irony.

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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#2467 Post by cdnchris » Fri Nov 01, 2019 4:08 pm

Robin Davies wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 3:20 pm
cdnchris wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 3:03 pm
You really have to go out of your way to get banned here, you're more likely to get a temporary ban at worst. Although if it's someone who only posts here to advertise their stuff, gets hotheaded because of a suggestion or a criticism of their product, and then starts calling someone names because of it, then yeah, that's pushing it.
I don't see how calling someone "stupid" in direct response to being called "clueless" is "going out of their way to get banned".
As domino points out it's not just this post, and it goes back even further to other "representatives" for the label (I think misterlime was the other) acting out in the same manner. And it's especially ridiculous when we're letting them post about their releases when we actually have rules that don't allow users to advertise.

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Feego
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#2468 Post by Feego » Fri Nov 01, 2019 4:45 pm

The basic difference between domino's "clueless" remark and Kino Insider's "stupid" remark is that domino was calling out the absurdity of KI's one-sentence defense that a commentator is suited to discuss a British film with a female lead by virtue of being British and female. KI then accused domino of being stupid for ... accurately comprehending KI's words? If you're going to accuse people of being stupid for believing what you post, then why post at all?

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tenia
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#2469 Post by tenia » Fri Nov 01, 2019 5:27 pm

I guess the bottom line of this is : stick to your good resolutions, folks !

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Finch
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#2470 Post by Finch » Fri Nov 01, 2019 5:29 pm

I'm grateful that Kino exist and what films they release, but the sheer quantity of what they release can (and does, if not every single time) lead to releases that often feel fairly good but not like true labours of love in the way that Indicator's do. Now, not every company needs to be Indicator (though it'd be nice!) but as the Lost Highway bonus features + PR fiasco and the report of some underwhelming audio commentaries and issues with aspect ratios on Blackmail demonstrate, Kino don't put in the extra care that makes a release truly essential. You clearly can't fault them for taste but for real effort, their releases mostly rate a B or C+ grade, and their public relations guys really need to develop some thicker skin and take constructive feedback on the chin. They don't seem to realise most people actually want their releases to be really great. They might want to consider slowing down and really knock a bunch of titles out of the park.

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tenia
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#2471 Post by tenia » Sat Nov 02, 2019 5:04 am

They've already explained multiple times that the sheer quantity of releases meant overloading their small team and that issues were bound to happen.

It's clear to me they've chosen quantity over quality, but it can be OK as long as when the worst happen, consumers can expect a fair reaction to the detected issues. I mean : mistakes happen, the important thing is to treat them as such. But Kino has often be lacking here, treating most issues as non-existing AND talking down to people pointing the mistakes (that Kino should have detected in the first place, so not only consumers are doing the QC, but they're talked down by the ones who didn't), which definitely isn't doing any favor to the trust they HAVE TO build with consumers to help overlooking the higher likelihood of mistakes.

They absolutely should release less titles (which would be the case even by still releasing 15 per month) if they can't handle more in a professional way.

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Roscoe
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#2472 Post by Roscoe » Sat Nov 02, 2019 8:20 am

tenia wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 5:04 am
But Kino has often be lacking here, treating most issues as non-existing AND talking down to people pointing the mistakes (that Kino should have detected in the first place, so not only consumers are doing the QC, but they're talked down by the ones who didn't), which definitely isn't doing any favor to the trust they HAVE TO build with consumers to help overlooking the higher likelihood of mistakes.
This. My respect for Kino took a massive hit with the SPIES/WOMAN IN THE MOON Aspect Ratio Fiasco -- I haven't been made a single Kino purchase since without carefully checking reviews and getting the heaviest possible discounts.

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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#2473 Post by FrauBlucher » Sat Nov 02, 2019 11:55 am

tenia wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 5:04 am
They've already explained multiple times that the sheer quantity of releases meant overloading their small team and that issues were bound to happen.

It's clear to me they've chosen quantity over quality, but it can be OK as long as when the worst happen, consumers can expect a fair reaction to the detected issues. I mean : mistakes happen, the important thing is to treat them as such. But Kino has often be lacking here, treating most issues as non-existing AND talking down to people pointing the mistakes (that Kino should have detected in the first place, so not only consumers are doing the QC, but they're talked down by the ones who didn't), which definitely isn't doing any favor to the trust they HAVE TO build with consumers to help overlooking the higher likelihood of mistakes.

They absolutely should release less titles (which would be the case even by still releasing 15 per month) if they can't handle more in a professional way.
The irony in all this is the Insider on several occasions has taken a shot at Criterion for releasing only 5 to 6 titles a month.

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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#2474 Post by MichaelB » Sat Nov 02, 2019 12:02 pm

Indicator releases four or five titles a month, and that's honestly the team's realistic limit without corners having to be cut - it averages out at about one per week, which sounds about right in terms of what's needed. Although of course the size of the team is a key factor here.

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Florinaldo
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#2475 Post by Florinaldo » Sat Nov 02, 2019 10:19 pm

Finch wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 8:57 pm
Well, like some actors appearing in a dreadful film just so they can pay their kids' college fees or pay off their mortgage, some scholars will also take money to record a commentary for a film they don't care about.
Some frequent audio commentators (and interview subjects) can be uneven when they stray out of their area of specialisation. There are a very few apparent polymaths out there like Adrian Martin or Kat Ellinger who manage to defy the odds and provide consistently interesting contributions over a wide spectrum of films. But even someone like Kim Newman, who is also knowledgeable in the Western genre for example as he demonstrated on the Indicator Boetticher set, usually sticks to his core area of SF/supernatural fiction and film and provides consistenly interesting facts and opinions. Others might do well to consider following his example.

There's also the option of using an audio only lengthy radio or public interview with the director or another cast/crew member and running it over the movie on one of the audio tracks (a public panel is another possibility). It's what Criterion did on on their release of de Palma's Sisters which I watched recently and Indicator has also used that practice. It avoids a frantic search for someone, anyone, to do a commentary they might not be a good candidate for (of course, it deprives the label of the marketing opportunity to tout it as a "NEW commentary!").
Last edited by Florinaldo on Sun Nov 03, 2019 8:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

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