471-474 Pigs, Pimps & Prostitutes: 3 Films by Shohei Imamura

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Michael Kerpan
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Re: 471-474 Pigs, Pimps & Prostitutes: 3 Films by Shohei Imamura

#51 Post by Michael Kerpan » Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:23 am

I rarely buy DVDs (even Criterion ones) for the special features. I think the extras in this set are fine -- but simply having very fine transfers of these excellent films was enough (for me) to justify buying the set. However, since I already had unsubbed versions of some of the films, I waited for a sale to buy the set. ;~}

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Re: 471-474 Pigs, Pimps & Prostitutes: 3 Films by Shohei Imamura

#52 Post by James » Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:59 am

Thanks for the advice, folks! I think I'll see when the next sale is and for now check out my Masters of Cinema Vengeance Is Mine DVD when I get the chance.

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Re: 471-474 Pigs, Pimps & Prostitutes: 3 Films by Shohei Imamura

#53 Post by Michael Kerpan » Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:24 am

james wrote:Thanks for the advice, folks! I think I'll see when the next sale is and for now check out my Masters of Cinema Vengeance Is Mine DVD when I get the chance.
Vengeance of Mine is great -- but is somewhat atypical.

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Re: 471-474 Pigs, Pimps & Prostitutes: 3 Films by Shohei Imamura

#54 Post by BigMack3000 » Fri Aug 28, 2009 9:09 am

Not sure if this is the right place to post this, but I also just picked up Vengeance is Mine during the b&n sale. In the booklet is an interview with Imamura where they mention two other movies of his. Profound Desire of the Gods and A Man Vanishes. I've looked everywhere i know of online to find these movies but haven't found anything. Does anyone know what the rights situation is with these or if there are any dvds for them available? Also has anyone seen them? Are they good? Thanks.

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Re: 471-474 Pigs, Pimps & Prostitutes: 3 Films by Shohei Imamura

#55 Post by Michael Kerpan » Sat Aug 29, 2009 1:20 am

BigMack3000 wrote:In the booklet is an interview with Imamura where they mention two other movies of his. Profound Desire of the Gods and A Man Vanishes. I've looked everywhere i know of online to find these movies but haven't found anything. Does anyone know what the rights situation is with these or if there are any dvds for them available? Also has anyone seen them? Are they good? Thanks.
I do not believe there is any commercially available subbed version of either film (there are unsubbed Japanese DVDs of both). There may be fan-subbed versions floating about the Internet.

Both films are quite interesting -- and worth watching (if you like Imamura's other work).

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Re: 471-474 Pigs, Pimps & Prostitutes: 3 Films by Shohei Imamura

#56 Post by Gregory » Sat Aug 29, 2009 10:30 am

Michael Kerpan wrote:There may be fan-subbed versions floating about the Internet.
There definitely are. However, isn't Criterion still planning to release an Imamura Eclipse set at some point?

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Re: 471-474 Pigs, Pimps & Prostitutes: 3 Films by Shohei Imamura

#57 Post by zedz » Sun Aug 30, 2009 8:25 pm

BigMack3000 wrote:Not sure if this is the right place to post this, but I also just picked up Vengeance is Mine during the b&n sale. In the booklet is an interview with Imamura where they mention two other movies of his. Profound Desire of the Gods and A Man Vanishes. I've looked everywhere i know of online to find these movies but haven't found anything. Does anyone know what the rights situation is with these or if there are any dvds for them available? Also has anyone seen them? Are they good? Thanks.
Good subbed versions of both are indeed 'floating in the ether' (both came out on the late lamented Japanese New Wave Classics line a few years back). They're both excellent - Imamura's two best films, in my opinion, and very different from one another. A Man Vanishes is an ATG production, and those films seem to have complicated rights situations - Criterion at least hasn't had much luck accessing them (Double Suicide excepted). This is a real problem when it comes to the Japanese New Wave, as the Art Theatre Guild was responsible for many of the most significant JNW titles of the late 60s / early 70s (the major Oshimas, plus Hani, Yoshida, Jissoji, Matsumoto, Terayama, Okamoto's Human Bullet). I believe the film rights reverted to the individual filmmakers when the company folded, and there seem to be excellent elements for most of these films, so I'm not exactly sure why more of these titles aren't available in legitimate, subtitled editions.

The Profound Desire of the Gods was produced by Imamura's own production company (and famously flopped, driving him back to television for many years). It's a widescreen, colour epic (albeit a rather scurrilous one) and it's got a fine critical reputation, so it actually seems like a much easier sell to me than many of his other films, but what do I know?

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Re: 471-474 Pigs, Pimps & Prostitutes: 3 Films by Shohei Imamura

#58 Post by Anthony » Sun Sep 06, 2009 4:00 pm

FerdinandGriffon wrote:Does anyone know why the mutterings of the old women in Intentions of Murder weren't subbed? They were certainly intelligible, especially near the end of the film.
I have the same question. Does anyone know the answer to this? Their mutterings must carry some importance to the film and I'm curious to know what they were saying as well.

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Re: 471-474 Pigs, Pimps & Prostitutes: 3 Films by Shohei Imamura

#59 Post by manicsounds » Tue Sep 08, 2009 9:39 am

"A Man Vanishes" is awesome. Love that film. The mock-documentary style, and the very surprising ending. I'm waiting for a non-Japanese good version to come out.

As for the mutterings, I haven't seen this movie yet, but I'll make sure I'll put it next on my to-watch list.

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Re: 471-474 Pigs, Pimps & Prostitutes: 3 Films by Shohei Imamura

#60 Post by Adam » Tue Sep 08, 2009 11:45 am

The Profound Desire of the Gods also fits the term awesome; a major work (whether or not it works for you).
The lack of a good subtitled version is ridiculous. Same with the lack of a good subtitled version (at least in R1, based on my quick search of Amazon) of The Ballad of Narayama is also ridiculous, as the latter won the Palme D'or!
Neither of these are films for an Eclipse; they both are major works that call for special editions.

I also think that these are both films that you shouldn't watch from someone's random torrent; you need to see good versions with large images. But I'm lucky and live in Los Angeles where they have both screened.

Which reminds me. There is an Art Theatre Guild package available, I think. At least, I know two programmers in Los Angeles working on getting some of those titles here for screenings. I wonder how they are progressing.

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Re: 471-474 Pigs, Pimps & Prostitutes: 3 Films by Shohei Imamura

#61 Post by FerdinandGriffon » Tue Sep 08, 2009 11:54 am

The Ballad of Narayama is available in R1, don't have any idea how good a disc it is though.

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Re: 471-474 Pigs, Pimps & Prostitutes: 3 Films by Shohei Imamura

#62 Post by Michael Kerpan » Tue Sep 08, 2009 11:56 am

Adam wrote:The Profound Desire of the Gods also fits the term awesome; a major work (whether or not it works for you).
The lack of a good subtitled version is ridiculous. Same with the lack of a good subtitled version (at least in R1, based on my quick search of Amazon) of The Ballad of Narayama is also ridiculous
Imamura's Narayama is out on DVD in R1 --released by Animeigo, asmentioned above.

Animeigo's page for this links to a bunch of DVD reviews. See:

http://www.animeigo.com/Other/NARAYAMA.t?cart_T=" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: 471-474 Pigs, Pimps & Prostitutes: 3 Films by Shohei Imamura

#63 Post by swo17 » Tue Sep 08, 2009 12:00 pm

Adam wrote:Same with the lack of a good subtitled version (at least in R1, based on my quick search of Amazon) of The Ballad of Narayama is also ridiculous, as the latter won the Palme D'or!
There is an R1 release for Narayama that came out last year. I saw it when it came out, but can't remember what the quality was like. I want to say it was at least passable.

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Re: 471-474 Pigs, Pimps & Prostitutes: 3 Films by Shohei Imamura

#64 Post by jojo » Tue Sep 08, 2009 3:09 pm

My experience with Animeigo's DVDs (live action or otherwise) is that their quality is fairly mediocre. They're a very, very, very small company though, so that is to be expected. I'm interested in seeing how Black Rain turns out--which is probably their most "important" live action release to date.

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Re: 471-474 Pigs, Pimps & Prostitutes: 3 Films by Shohei Imamura

#65 Post by zedz » Tue Sep 08, 2009 4:00 pm

For the record, Animeigo's Ballad of Narayama is a great disc. Excellent transfer. The only issue with their recent releases, as far as I know, is their eccentric (as in over-conscientious, annotated) subtitling. There's no excuse not to buy it.

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Re: 471-474 Pigs, Pimps & Prostitutes: 3 Films by Shohei Imamura

#66 Post by tajmahal » Tue Feb 16, 2010 4:45 am

Michael Kerpan wrote:Does anyone else wonder whether the magnificent opening sequence of Pigs and Battleships was inspired, at least in part, by that of Touch of Evil?
If you happen to read this, Michael, I thought the very same thing, especially the final wipe as the car drives away from camera. Would be great to know if Imamura saw the film, because if he did, it looks very much like an homage.

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Re: 471-474 Pigs, Pimps & Prostitutes: 3 Films by Shohei Imamura

#67 Post by Michael Kerpan » Tue Feb 16, 2010 2:34 pm

tajmahal wrote:
Michael Kerpan wrote:Does anyone else wonder whether the magnificent opening sequence of Pigs and Battleships was inspired, at least in part, by that of Touch of Evil?
If you happen to read this, Michael, I thought the very same thing, especially the final wipe as the car drives away from camera. Would be great to know if Imamura saw the film, because if he did, it looks very much like an homage.
I have never read any comments by Imamura on Welles. Imamura also would seem to have imbibed some of the spirit of Lady From Shanghai....

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Re: 471-474 Pigs, Pimps & Prostitutes: 3 Films by Shohei Imamura

#68 Post by Awesome Welles » Tue Feb 16, 2010 3:03 pm

Michael Kerpan wrote:
tajmahal wrote:
Michael Kerpan wrote:Does anyone else wonder whether the magnificent opening sequence of Pigs and Battleships was inspired, at least in part, by that of Touch of Evil?
If you happen to read this, Michael, I thought the very same thing, especially the final wipe as the car drives away from camera. Would be great to know if Imamura saw the film, because if he did, it looks very much like an homage.
I have never read any comments by Imamura on Welles. Imamura also would seem to have imbibed some of the spirit of Lady From Shanghai....
I thought so too. It's been a while since I saw the film but I remember thinking of Welles throughout. Michael, what have you read on Imamura, I'd be interested to hear any recommendations of online resources.

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Re: 471-474 Pigs, Pimps & Prostitutes: 3 Films by Shohei Imamura

#69 Post by Michael Kerpan » Tue Feb 16, 2010 3:35 pm

I don't know of anything offhand beyond our this forum's resource guide:

viewtopic.php?f=25&t=6081" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: 471-474 Pigs, Pimps & Prostitutes: 3 Films by Shohei Ima

#70 Post by AisleSeat » Tue Apr 20, 2010 4:56 pm

Disappointingly, all three films are now (and have been for several months) missing in action on Netflix. This reduces the potential audience for these films considerably. This is problematic because the less viewed these films are, the fewer box set sales, which, in turn, usually translates to fewer films of similar ilk being released on DVD.

Netflix will only order more copies of these films when enough people indicate their interest by placing the movies in their "queues." Although many of you who are reading this now have seen these films, there are hundreds, if not thousands, who are interested in doing so but do not have the opportunity because the films are currently "unavailable." These folks could sign up for another rental service, such as GreenCine, but how many will really go through that trouble. All too often it's Netflix or the local video store (which seem to be closing up shop left and right) or nothing.

If you're a Netflix member, please add these films to your queue. Even if you've already viewed them, please add them again to induce Netflix to order more copies. And this goes not only for the Imamura films, but several other Criterion/Eclipse releases as well that are available for purchase in the marketplace, but are Netflix missing in action.

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Re: 471-474 Pigs, Pimps & Prostitutes: 3 Films by Shohei Ima

#71 Post by James » Wed Apr 21, 2010 11:53 pm

AisleSeat wrote:Disappointingly, all three films are now (and have been for several months) missing in action on Netflix. This reduces the potential audience for these films considerably.
That's why I'm glad I bought the set (haven't watched them yet—I've taken somewhat of a break from movies lately, only watching the occasional comedy, but hope to jump in again this week). But yes, you're right of course. One of the great things about Netflix is its selection, so they should have at least a dozen titles on hand at any given time of each selection from the Criterion Collection.

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Re: 471-474 Pigs, Pimps & Prostitutes: 3 Films by Shohei Ima

#72 Post by knives » Sat Aug 28, 2010 1:38 am

The climax to Pigs and Battleships is even by Imamura's standards so hilariously ridiculous and over the top. By the time Wang shows up I had fallen four feet out of bed and was still laughing. I know I'm going to have to be disappointed with the rest of the set because there is no way the other two will live up to that insanity. That the next scene is so dead serious and still manages to work is also unbelievable. I can't think of too many people that can do that whiplash balance so well.
What really impressed me though was how well the widescreen was utilized (though that shouldn't have been too surprising as the Japanese in general seem to have mastered the format better than anyone else). If everyone used it so well I wouldn't be reciting Contempt and Ozu all of the time.
(final bit of whining, but I really hope that we get an eclipse or something of his documentaries)

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Intentions of Murder (Shohei Imamura, 1964)

#73 Post by Mr Sausage » Mon Mar 29, 2021 12:33 pm

DISCUSSION ENDS MONDAY, April 12th

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This thread is not spoiler free. This is a discussion thread; you should expect plot points of the individual films under discussion to be discussed openly. See: spoiler rules.

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I encourage members to submit questions, either those designed to elicit discussion and point out interesting things to keep an eye on, or just something you want answered. This will be extremely helpful in getting discussion started. Starting is always the hardest part, all the more so if it's unguided. Questions can be submitted to me via PM.

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Intentions of Murder (Shohei Imamura, 1964)

#74 Post by Mr Sausage » Mon Mar 29, 2021 12:35 pm

In the 6th century BC, Sextus Tarquinius, son of the King of Rome, forcibly raped a noblewoman named Lucrecia. Lucrecia, a good and virtuous Roman woman, called her husband and father together, explained the crime against her, then promptly committed suicide. This latter act became celebrated throughout history, demonstrating Lucretia’s commitment to virtue and duty—a good woman.

Following her own rape, Sadako immediately runs out of the house to commit suicide by train (the image of the train, more than duty or ceremony, suggests escape). But Imamura does something brilliant: he abstracts the moment, using extreme slow motion and heavily stylized gestures, a shock in a movie up to then so realistic. The decision to suicide has become in effect unreal. And Imamura returns us right away to normalcy, a close shot of Sadako eating. The moment never had proper weight. No cult of suicide for Imamura.

Sadako is a victim, but she has been a victim for a long time. Her crime apparently, from her perspective, was merely having been born. We see in rather dream-like flashbacks that she had been victimized throughout her life for the crime of sex, this time consensual sex, of which she was the product. And now the victim of sexual assault, she knows too keenly she will be punished again for acts she had no control over.

Imamura has always been a keen observer of social attitudes and the institutions they bolster. In his 60s films, his characters are often trapped by the forces and systems they inhabit, sometimes becoming complicit in their entrapment, tho’ they mistake it for a gesture of escape. Intentions of Murder is Imamura’s most confined and entrapping film, with a protagonist deprived at almost every step of power, self-direction, and respect. So confined is the protagonist by the uncertain social role post-war Japan permits women to be placed in (mothers and wives with all the social responsibilities entailed by those roles but no legal claim to either) that not only is she unable to even speak of the assault against her, but she is without recourse when her assailant returns. Her lack of any legal claim to her family or household makes any consent dubious, really, even in her relations with her nominal husband. Imamura is often said to portray earthy, sexual women upfront in their desires; but Sadako is too confined and abused for this putative Imamura type to emerge. An early expression of youthful desire gains swift punishment in a flashback, and we see that the consequence of this harsh policing of her sexuality, so far from health and virtue and proper womanhood, is social powerlessness and joyless sex with all the brutality of assault, culminating in an assault by a stranger she cannot report.

Given this context, how did so many early critics get the idea that Sadako falls in love with her rapist? Because she doesn’t mention the assault? Because she endures his endless returns? The movie I thought made clear how she is trapped in these situations, managing as best she can to hold on to her tenuous position in society. Imamura understands social traps are not singular. Sadako is not trapped only by male sexual aggression; she is trapped as well by the emotional labour men expect women to perform without any care for the cost. This expectation that women perform social labours without reward is represented more largely by Sadako’s having to be housewife, mother, and concubine for her husband all while having no legal standing (and not even an expectation of sexual fulfillment). But it’s represented more intimately by her rapist returning again and again, not to renew the assault, but to dump his misery on her, to use her for emotional fulfillment just as he’d used her for bodily fulfillment. It’s Imamura’s genius to see these as related, two sides of the same power dynamic. Just as women are seen as objects of physical release, so they are seen an objects of emotional release, without any expectation that these be reciprocal. Poor Sadako is expected to nurture, save, and redeem the dying man, be the object of his final release. For him, the pitch and importance of his own emotions are such that he cannot even conceive of Sadako not pitying him and giving what he needs. This is a role movies often shuffle women into, the bearers and redeemers of male pain.

This all leads to one of my favourite scenes in the movie. Sadako goes to her rapist’s apartment to pay him off. He takes her to the balcony and there unburdens all his despair and misery, the pains and victimizations of a lifetime, hoping desperately for some connection and assuagement. And yet the whole time, we’ve been watching this baring of the soul in an extreme long shot from another building, removed, distanced from the emotional content of the rapist’s speech. And Sadako, who doesn’t even look at him throughout his whole story, who stands as far from him as she can, responds perfectly with: “Why can’t you leave me alone!”. Love indeed.

Imamura, tho’ he brings us carefully into Sadako’s world and emotions, uses his distancing effects to remove us from the emotional world of the rapist, not letting the sympathetic content obstruct our view of the awful behaviours. And crucially to see how Sadako is not taken in by this herself. She endures it, but she does not accept it. Love him? She can barely stand to listen to him. Far from embracing either her rapist or this traditional female role, filmic and otherwise, Sadako resists.

The film ends equivocally. Sadako exerts no power to escape her situation—the world of the film takes care of the rapist and the snooping mistress for her—but she does exert enough power to secure her social position. She is no longer quite at other people’s mercy, and we feel the reserves of strength she displays dwarf anything her husband and mother-in-law possess (theirs came not out of character but pure social position). She is still prey to the same confines bred by post-war social institutions, but she has avenues now for self direction and a basis from which to say no. Sadako, like all Imamura female protagonists, finds a way to survive, and makes no apologies for how she managed it.

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Re: Intentions of Murder (Shohei Imamura, 1964)

#75 Post by zedz » Mon Mar 29, 2021 4:00 pm

Great write-up. I voted for this because it was the film I remembered the least. I'm away for a few days, but will try to rewatch it over Easter.

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