484, 1203 Chantal Akerman Masterpieces, 1968–1978

Discuss releases by Criterion and the films on them. Threads may contain spoilers!
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kekid
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Re: 484 Jeanne Dielman, 23 Quai du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles

#76 Post by kekid » Sun May 17, 2009 10:57 am

What are the thoughts of the forum members on why Criterion is choosing not to release major new DVDs simultaneously in the Blu Ray format? It appears to me that there is something more to their choices than the rights to release a particular film in the Blu ray format. I am particularly disappointed by their decisions not to release Salo and Jeanne Dielman in Blu Ray.

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Antoine Doinel
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Re: 484 Jeanne Dielman, 23 Quai du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles

#77 Post by Antoine Doinel » Sun May 17, 2009 11:53 am

kekid wrote:What are the thoughts of the forum members on why Criterion is choosing not to release major new DVDs simultaneously in the Blu Ray format? It appears to me that there is something more to their choices than the rights to release a particular film in the Blu ray format. I am particularly disappointed by their decisions not to release Salo and Jeanne Dielman in Blu Ray.
Simply because Jeanne and Salo are not major releases. They are important films to be sure, but in the realm of Criterion's catalog I would wager they are not big sellers nor is the audience for these films particularly big. Releasing one film on two formats for an already marginal audience probably doesn't make the most financial sense.

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swo17
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Re: 484 Jeanne Dielman, 23 Quai du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles

#78 Post by swo17 » Sun May 17, 2009 3:06 pm

I know I read an article a while back suggesting that it would take a bit more work to put out BDs of catalog titles than you would think, given that Criterion has been using HD transfers for years now. (Essentially, if I remember correctly, it's because a lot of the resto work would have to be done all over again with a BD release in mind.) However, and this is pure speculation here, I would imagine that at this point, now that the realities of the BD marketplace are more clear, Criterion is making more efforts to reduce the amount of work they would have to duplicate in the future to upgrade a title to BD. So if something like Jeanne Dielman sells well enough, and they determine there is a market for it, it wouldn't take that much more work to do the upgrade (like it might for some of the older catalog titles). Again, pure speculation, and perhaps wishful thinking on my part. But it seems like common business sense to me.

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Highway 61
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Re: 484 Jeanne Dielman, 23 Quai du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles

#79 Post by Highway 61 » Sun May 17, 2009 3:26 pm

What I'd be curious to know is if Criterion's seen a noticeable decline (however slight it may be) in their SD sales. In my case, I've simply stopped buying all their SD releases (save the occasional Eclipse set) to focus entirely on the Blus. There are plenty of titles I'd love to own, but I'm happy renting them for now until they come out in HD, or until it becomes absolutely clear that Criterion is content to give only their highest profile titles the Blu-Ray treatment.

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Gregory
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Re: 484 Jeanne Dielman, 23 Quai du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles

#80 Post by Gregory » Sun May 17, 2009 3:51 pm

DVD sales have dropped significantly for a number of reasons. The economic situation is an obvious factor, but sales were already starting to drop even before there were signs of recession, as people started turning back to TV and other forms of entertainment. The industry sees Blu-Ray as one of the things that can forestall declining revenues from DVDs, and it's reasonable to predict that at this point Criterion's Blu-Ray releases will pay off better in the long-term at least as well as SD releases. I'd guess that many if not most of Criterion's releases generally sell a bit better over a longer period than blockbuster titles that have a enormous spike at release date and then rapidly taper off. So it makes sense for them to push Blu-Ray releases, which seem to have a brighter future than SD releases at the exact same price point.
Perhaps this reasoning is wishful thinking on my part. I've yet to buy anything on Blu-Ray, but I hope Criterion will move heaven and earth to release the next Brakhage set on the new format. I'm also really excited about Playtime on Blu-Ray, even though I have no idea when I'll even get to see it. I'm waiting for 1080p projectors to come down in price.
[typo]
Last edited by Gregory on Sun May 17, 2009 5:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Fierias
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Re: 484 Jeanne Dielman, 23 Quai du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles

#81 Post by Fierias » Sun May 17, 2009 3:59 pm

If this release really is a port of the Cineart set, then doesn't that answer the question of why this isn't coming out on Blu?

And aren't there rumors that MoC will be putting out Akerman's 70s films? Perhaps they can give us 1080 Bruxelles in 1080p.

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TheGodfather
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Re: 484 Jeanne Dielman, 23 Quai du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles

#82 Post by TheGodfather » Sun May 17, 2009 4:49 pm

zedz wrote:
TheGodfather wrote:Really looking forward to this one, the supplements sound excellent!
They are, as anyone who owns the Belgian Akerman set can attest: this looks pretty much like a direct port, with only a couple of possible minor exceptions (e.g. intro to Saute ma ville?) Shock! Horror! Criterion are doing another Benjamin Button!
The Belgian set is on its way to me. So let`s wait and see if the Criterion version add`s anything substantial.

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R0lf
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Re: 484 Jeanne Dielman, 23 Quai du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles

#83 Post by R0lf » Tue May 19, 2009 7:54 am

Having a look at the earlier posts regarding the ending of the movie I thought I might chime in.
SpoilerShow
I thought the ending undermined the rest of the movie. I found less value in Jeanne being revealed as unstable than for her to be representative of a normal person who puts up with the hard grind of life and lives with it.

mteller
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Re: 484 Jeanne Dielman, 23 Quai du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles

#84 Post by mteller » Tue May 19, 2009 11:02 am

R0lf wrote:Having a look at the earlier posts regarding the ending of the movie I thought I might chime in.
SpoilerShow
I thought the ending undermined the rest of the movie. I found less value in Jeanne being revealed as unstable than for her to be representative of a normal person who puts up with the hard grind of life and lives with it.
But the whole point of the film is
SpoilerShow
watching her become unstable.

Ted Todorov
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Re: Jeanne Dielman (Chantal Akerman, 1975)

#85 Post by Ted Todorov » Tue May 19, 2009 2:58 pm

Barmy wrote:Couldn't they just do a MISSING REEL thing ala "Grindhouse"? lulz
It can only improve the movie. I would have paid good money not to have to sit through the potato peeling scene. Although I was a young and callow youth when I saw it back in the '80s (no projection problems back then). I'll probably give it a rental, see if my tastes have changed any.

So far as BD, I think it is putting Criterion between a rock and a hard place -- not enough people are buying BDs for it to really help Criterion's bottom line, but enough people have stopped buying SDs because of the BD promise (and the novelty having worn off), and that, along with the added production costs, IS hurting Criterion's bottom line.

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CSM126
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Re: Jeanne Dielman (Chantal Akerman, 1975)

#86 Post by CSM126 » Tue May 19, 2009 5:46 pm

Ted Todorov wrote:So far as BD, I think it is putting Criterion between a rock and a hard place -- not enough people are buying BDs for it to really help Criterion's bottom line, but enough people have stopped buying SDs because of the BD promise (and the novelty having worn off), and that, along with the added production costs, IS hurting Criterion's bottom line.
Criterion themselves have said that when they do a dual-format release, the BR makes up for something like 30 to 50% of the sales. One would think that's enough. And I seriously doubt there's a flood of people saying "Well, I don't have a BR player yet, but I refuse to buy SD anymore! I will not watch films!". I mean, yeah, there are a few assholes who do that because they think it makes them sound neat-o (and boy do they like to brag about on teh internets), but I don't think your average consumer is really doing that.

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Antoine Doinel
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Re: Jeanne Dielman (Chantal Akerman, 1975)

#87 Post by Antoine Doinel » Tue May 19, 2009 6:06 pm

Ted Todorov wrote:So far as BD, I think it is putting Criterion between a rock and a hard place -- not enough people are buying BDs for it to really help Criterion's bottom line
What exactly are you basing this on?

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R0lf
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Re: 484 Jeanne Dielman, 23 Quai du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles

#88 Post by R0lf » Wed May 20, 2009 5:27 am

mteller wrote:
R0lf wrote:Having a look at the earlier posts regarding the ending of the movie I thought I might chime in.
SpoilerShow
I thought the ending undermined the rest of the movie. I found less value in Jeanne being revealed as unstable than for her to be representative of a normal person who puts up with the hard grind of life and lives with it.
But the whole point of the film is
SpoilerShow
watching her become unstable.
Sorry I should have been more specific. What I mean is that the way I was watching the movie I interpreted her behavior as representative of the common bump and grind of everyday life and Jeanne as representative more or less of what people suffer day to day. At the end of the movie
SpoilerShow
when Jeanne is revealed as homicidal I found the movie less effective as the portrait of a dangerous and disturbed woman. I thought it would have been a more mature and effective outcome to show the growth in the character in a less purely sensationalist way.
(These automatic spoiler warnings are fantastic.)

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Matt
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Re: 484 Jeanne Dielman, 23 Quai du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles

#89 Post by Matt » Wed May 20, 2009 9:15 am

R0lf wrote:(These automatic spoiler warnings are fantastic.)
Yeah, automatic. Actually, I have edited both your posts to include the spoiler tags. Next time, please add them yourself:

Code: Select all

[spoiler]Rosebud is a sled[/spoiler]

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cdnchris
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Re: 484 Jeanne Dielman, 23 Quai du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles

#90 Post by cdnchris » Wed May 20, 2009 12:48 pm

Matt wrote:

Code: Select all

[spoiler]Rosebud is a sled[/spoiler]
Dude! Thanks a lot! Now there's no point in me finishing the movie.

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domino harvey
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Re: 484 Jeanne Dielman, 23 Quai du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles

#91 Post by domino harvey » Wed May 20, 2009 1:36 pm

Don't you mean Rosebowl?

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oldsheperd
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Re: 484 Jeanne Dielman, 23 Quai du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles

#92 Post by oldsheperd » Wed May 20, 2009 3:02 pm

Apparently some of you haven't seen the Family Guy where Peter tapes over Citizen Kane.

"Rosebud is his sled"

or what was te one from Saturday Night Live: "Ham on rye"? or something like that.

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kaujot
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Re: 484 Jeanne Dielman, 23 Quai du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles

#93 Post by kaujot » Fri Aug 07, 2009 6:51 pm


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HerrSchreck
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Re: 484 Jeanne Dielman, 23 Quai du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles

#94 Post by HerrSchreck » Fri Aug 07, 2009 7:28 pm

Once again CC resorts to its practice of busting up good supplements like episodes of Cineastes Notre temps.

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tojoed
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Re: 484 Jeanne Dielman, 23 Quai du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles

#95 Post by tojoed » Sat Aug 08, 2009 2:17 am

HerrSchreck wrote:Once again CC resorts to its practice of busting up good supplements like episodes of Cineastes Notre temps.
You're right. The only complete one I've seen is the magnificent one on Jean Vigo on the AE disc.
It would be nice if they were avalable as a box set somewhere.

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domino harvey
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Re: 484 Jeanne Dielman, 23 Quai du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles

#96 Post by domino harvey » Sat Aug 08, 2009 2:19 am

Eclipse Series 34: Things You Shouldn't Have to Pay Twice For, But Well, Here We Are

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cdnchris
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Re: 484 Jeanne Dielman, 23 Quai du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles

#97 Post by cdnchris » Sat Aug 08, 2009 2:39 am

HerrSchreck wrote:Once again CC resorts to its practice of busting up good supplements like episodes of Cineastes Notre temps.
According to IMDB the original is 63-minutes. Here it is 17-minutes. But after researching on the "interwebs" (I've never seen the actual episode) the full version is primarily made up of clips from her films. While I don't know the reasoning for cutting the episodes down for other releases I would assume rights issues were a problem here.

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Zazou dans le Metro
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Re: 484 Jeanne Dielman, 23 Quai du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles

#98 Post by Zazou dans le Metro » Sat Aug 08, 2009 3:22 am

HerrSchreck wrote:Once again CC resorts to its practice of busting up good supplements like episodes of Cineastes Notre temps.
If you read french you'd be advised to read Andre S. Labarthe's article in Cahiers du Cinema 585 where over two pages he rails against using episodes of Cinema de notre temps as an archival source to be plundered at will. When it comes to Criterion the guy is positively apoplectic regarding the lack of proper crediting and being rode roughshod over despite him NOT giving approval for the practice of cutting up programmes for 'bonus' features. Salt is rubbed into the wound when he reads subsequently an 'acknowledgment' from Criterion that " without (his) approval this release would not have been complete"
This was in December 2003 and he singles out the Melvilles and Godards as examples of instances when Criterion had gone as far as request the rushes for further material. That was over 5 years ago. God knows what state he must be in by now.

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cdnchris
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Re: 484 Jeanne Dielman, 23 Quai du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles

#99 Post by cdnchris » Sat Aug 08, 2009 3:48 am


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Zazou dans le Metro
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Re: 484 Jeanne Dielman, 23 Quai du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles

#100 Post by Zazou dans le Metro » Mon Aug 17, 2009 11:25 am

Zazou dans le Metro wrote:
HerrSchreck wrote:Once again CC resorts to its practice of busting up good supplements like episodes of Cineastes Notre temps.
If you read french you'd be advised to read Andre S. Labarthe's article in Cahiers du Cinema 585 where over two pages he rails against using episodes of Cinema de notre temps as an archival source to be plundered at will. When it comes to Criterion the guy is positively apoplectic regarding the lack of proper crediting and being rode roughshod over despite him NOT giving approval for the practice of cutting up programmes for 'bonus' features. Salt is rubbed into the wound when he reads subsequently an 'acknowledgment' from Criterion that " without (his) approval this release would not have been complete"
This was in December 2003 and he singles out the Melvilles and Godards as examples of instances when Criterion had gone as far as request the rushes for further material. That was over 5 years ago. God knows what state he must be in by now.
Adrian Martin from the Godard Group on the same tack...
Many thanks for the kind words from my various surrogate mothers !! Seriously, I
apreciate it, especially coming from my fellow Godardians. For the record, all
the Godard DVDs I have done audio commentaries for here in Australia are: VIVRE
SA VIE, MASCULIN FEMININ, 2 OR 3 THINGS, LE GAI SAVOIR, MARRIED WOMAN. (I have
done 25 commentaries in all, also covering Ozu, Fassbinder, Bunuel, Bertolucci,
Sternberg, Lang, Preminger, Wenders ... ) For Criterion I did a written piece on
MASCULIN FEMININ some years ago, and then most recently Criterion recycled my
Madman 2 OR 3 THINGS commentary - without anyone in either company informing me
of this !! Ah well, I'm the 'licensed extra' ... I remember Labarthe doing his
nut in CAHIERS when he bought a few Criterion discs and discovered that segments
of his '60s documentaries on filmmakers had been unfussily excerpted without his
permission (presumably only the TV channel's permission). As for me, I'm getting
some of the best notices of my career from this Criterion deal, so I won't
complain too much !!

Adrian

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