For that the correct negative will have to be sourced... Note MK2 seem to have the same problem sequence, which bodes badly...Looks like there will be a second printing soon
281 Jules and Jim
- zedz
- Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 7:24 pm
Given the nature of collectors, and the nature of this particular collection, I believe the answer would be, idiotically enough, yes. I think we proved that conclusively with the 'Jimmy Crack Corn' incident. (And, yes, I don't care).solent wrote:What interests me is that if there is a reprint will there also be a recall? If not, will the incorrect DVD be a collector's item [as in stamps] and be worth more?
- editman
- Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 4:13 pm
- hammock
- Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 1:52 pm
- Location: www.criteriondungeon.com
- Contact:
If TOHO could have Criterion reprint Seven Samurai because of the restoration demo, I think there are many people/companies that could demand a reprint in this incident. I think Criterion should do a re-print no matter what, as you can't just flip scenes in a movie, that is too big a mistake for me to swallow at least... (phew - my English sucks in the morning - sorry)!
- editman
- Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 4:13 pm
Still (AFAIK) MK2, as of today, hasn't acknowledged the flipping problem themselves. And the same problem has occured on other Region's versions* too and no one has made a fuss about it before. (Don't think Panorama has fixed their DVD yet.) So the demand for a reprint are pretty much coming only from the end users' side.hammock wrote:If TOHO could have Criterion reprint Seven Samurai because of the restoration demo, I think there are many people/companies that could demand a reprint in this incident.
And that's my only concern cos Criterion usually do a fixed reprint when there's a technical glitch on a DVD title. We are talking about an entire remastering here (don't think it can easily be fixed by branching the correct framings into the movie ). I don't think there's ever been another Criterion DVD title with a similar problem (or dare I say, such a screw-up) before?
*I wonder if there's anyone who owns the French or Japanese DVD and if the same flipping problem occurs on them?
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- Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 1:00 pm
Yes the same flipping occurs on the French MK2 DVD. Which leads me to questions: Does that mean that the actual 35mm camera negative that MK2 & Criterion used had some frames spliced in backwards? Or did that somehow happen when the master positive was printed?
This implies to me that they did NOT use the MK2 telecine (which was presumably done direct to PAL).Director of photography Raoul Coutard supervised this new high-definition digital transfer, created on a Spirit Datacine from a 35mm fine-grain master positive made from the original camera negative.
- ellipsis7
- Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 1:56 pm
- Location: Dublin
Yes, I suggested this some posts back... It is likely that at some stage in the 1990's the negative got damaged at this point... In reconstructing it/restoring it, dupes were taken from existing prints, framing them tighter and inadvertently editing them on 'flipped'... The confusion would be exacerbated in the duping process moving from internegative to interpositive etc. where the orientatiuon of images will get moved around...
I wonder if possibly the negative got damaged at this point, and in duping these shots off existing prints, the shots were accidentally flipped by the lab...
I still think it is likely to have arisen during repair of a short damaged section of the negative...
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Jules, Jim and Catherine couldn't care less about her, so why should you?Narshty wrote:I could well be totally missing something here, but what on earth happens to Sabine, Jules and Catherine's daughter?
I thought that she was just a plot device to make us understand the selfishness of our trio of 'heroes'.
- editman
- Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 4:13 pm
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- Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 2:27 pm
- Location: London, UK
That's what I thought. I knew there was something that left a bad taste in my mouth, but that nails the essential dislikeability of the film for me. The whole cascade of petit-bourgeois narcissicism just did my head in.N. Wilson wrote:Jules, Jim and Catherine couldn't care less about her, so why should you?Narshty wrote:I could well be totally missing something here, but what on earth happens to Sabine, Jules and Catherine's daughter?
I thought that she was just a plot device to make us understand the selfishness of our trio of 'heroes'.
- Steven H
- Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 3:30 pm
- Location: NC
While I was watching The Key to Jules and Jim something struck me as incredibly interesting about Roche's reductive writing style. It brings up how in his original manuscript there are whole pages marked out with only a few words, or a sentence, left. With that kind of backbone, it's amazing we got to know Sabine at all. With such a near total negation of sub-plot (and probably plot), to not just concentrate on the three main characters wouldn't have fit the film (not that this makes it likeable, or takes away the narcissism). I want to read the book.N. Wilson wrote:Jules, Jim and Catherine couldn't care less about her, so why should you?
I thought that she was just a plot device to make us understand the selfishness of our trio of 'heroes'.
Narshty wrote:That's what I thought. I knew there was something that left a bad taste in my mouth, but that nails the essential disikeability of the film for me. The whole cascade of petit-bourgeois narcissism just did my head in.
- Theodore R. Stockton
- Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 4:55 pm
- Location: Where Streams Of Whiskey Are Flowing
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- Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2005 11:00 pm
- Location: Chicago
Just wanted to weigh in on the Criterion Jules et Jim reverse frame controversy. I have two earlier non-DVD editions of J&J, both on laserdisc. The earlier Criterion LD of Jules et Jim and the very early CBS/FOX LD of Jules et Jim are exactly the same as the Fox Lorber DVD edition of Jules et Jim in terms of preserving the "correct" visual bearings on the aforementioned scenes that were compared by those on this forum.
The new Criterion DVD is definitely in error! But, oh mammy, what a collector's item it'll be one day, me hopes.
The new Criterion DVD is definitely in error! But, oh mammy, what a collector's item it'll be one day, me hopes.
- lord_clyde
- Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2004 4:22 am
- Location: Ogden, UT
- justeleblanc
- Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 6:05 pm
- Location: Connecticut
I haven't purchased this DVD yet but it's on my gift list so I'm probably going to get it in a few days. But all the talk of it being the most dissapointing release is worrying me. How bad is the flipped frames? How many seconds in total? Did Criterion say they would fix it? Do you think Criterion will actually fix it?
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- Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 2:27 pm
- Location: London, UK
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Whether you'll appreciate Jules et Jim depends upon your threshold for irritating niggles, which is all that this problem amounts to. As Narshty said, the error itself is almost unnoticeable, but even so, knowing that this 'flipping' occurs at all is, to me, an annoyance in and of itself.JusteLeblanc wrote:I haven't purchased this DVD yet but it's on my gift list so I'm probably going to get it in a few days. But all the talk of it being the most dissapointing release is worrying me. How bad is the flipped frames? How many seconds in total? Did Criterion say they would fix it? Do you think Criterion will actually fix it?
As for Criterion rectifying this problem in the future, well, I wouldn't hold your breath, blind as Criterion are to perfectly legitimate criticism of their transfers (see Gertrud and Kwaidan).