443-445 La ronde, Le plaisir, The Earrings of Madame de...

Discuss DVDs and Blu-rays released by Criterion and the films on them. If it's got a spine number, it's in here. Threads may contain spoilers.
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Jeff
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 9:49 pm
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#101 Post by Jeff » Tue Jun 17, 2008 8:40 pm

Cronenfly wrote:Could there be a licensing issue for keeping these three titles seperate?
That is a possibility. La ronde is a Janus property outright, while Earrings and Plaisir are licensed by Janus from Gaumont.

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What A Disgrace
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#102 Post by What A Disgrace » Tue Jun 17, 2008 8:53 pm

Odd that the two docs from the R2 Le Plaisir aren't included here. At least, not yet. The high price tag is pretty dumpy, too. I'll wait for the big sale to make a decision. It does have its own extras, and may indeed prove to be superior to the Second Sight some how.

Madame de... looks like it could easily evolve into a two discer, if there are more supplements ahead. Even with the window boxing, it'll kick the Second Sight disc out of anyone's orbit. It has all the supplements, probably will not have the ghosting, and more supplements to boot.

La Ronde is just right.

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Darth Lavender
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#103 Post by Darth Lavender » Tue Jun 17, 2008 9:55 pm

Am I the only one somewhat pleased by the individual releases?
I'd like to think Criterion actually listened to all the complaints about "Woman in the Dunes" only being available in a box-set.

Wether or not these titles are worth full price, I can't say; haven't really looked in detail at the extras. But, I can say; I already have Le Plaisir, and a lot of people already have both Plaisir and Madame de... (held off on the later, because of the PAL DVDs ghosting,) so being able to buy just La Ronde is a welcome opportunity.

Sure, in a perfect world, we'd have a choice of buying individual titles or a cheaper box-set (and, perhaps we will, later, like the Olivier Shakespeares, etc.) for that matter, in a perfect world, we'd get a simultaneous announcement of when/if the blu-ray is coming out.
But, things being as they are, I think this release shows Criterion is actually listening to consumers (re: complaints on the Teshigahara) and finally showing some consideration for those of us with multi-region players.

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GringoTex
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#104 Post by GringoTex » Tue Jun 17, 2008 10:17 pm

domino harvey wrote:For those who already have the Second Sight Ophuls, La Ronde is coming out on August 4 with many of the same extras as the Criterion, rendering this entire cycle of releases basically worthless. Let them charge full price for three Ophuls films already widely available elsewhere, but don't expect applause for not doing anything more than that.
The Second Sight discs are horrible transfers.

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denti alligator
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#105 Post by denti alligator » Tue Jun 17, 2008 10:54 pm

GringoTex wrote:
domino harvey wrote:For those who already have the Second Sight Ophuls, La Ronde is coming out on August 4 with many of the same extras as the Criterion, rendering this entire cycle of releases basically worthless. Let them charge full price for three Ophuls films already widely available elsewhere, but don't expect applause for not doing anything more than that.
The Second Sight discs are horrible transfers.
Does that go for Reckless Moment and Letter, too? I was planning on picking those up (especially the latter), now that I know they won't be appearing in the CC anytime soon.

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domino harvey
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#106 Post by domino harvey » Tue Jun 17, 2008 10:56 pm

I don't think the transfers outside of Madame de are bad at all, DVDBeaver has caps for all four titles if you need pushing in either direction.

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denti alligator
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#107 Post by denti alligator » Wed Jun 18, 2008 12:40 am

adaptation of Arthur Schnitzler's controversial turn-of-the-century play La ronde
Of course this is not quite right. Schnitzler's play is entitled Reigen.

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Cinephrenic
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#108 Post by Cinephrenic » Wed Jun 18, 2008 12:51 am

Anyone else dissapointed that they couldn't secure more Ophuls film rights?
Last edited by Cinephrenic on Wed Jun 18, 2008 3:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

Rupert Pupkin
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#109 Post by Rupert Pupkin » Wed Jun 18, 2008 2:56 am

no chance to see Lola Montes in October ???? :?

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david hare
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#110 Post by david hare » Wed Jun 18, 2008 4:16 am

Give it SEVERAL years minimum. Marcel has been fighting overt the rights for this for far longer.

They sound like identical edits down to the running time but with different language tracks, and from the same visual elements. Marcel's version claims its in Technicolor - which is completely meaningless these days. There is NO IB print line. But never mind.

Modern world.

Total bullshit.

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Tommaso
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#111 Post by Tommaso » Wed Jun 18, 2008 6:13 am

Darth Lavender wrote:Am I the only one somewhat pleased by the individual releases?
No, I am pleased as well, although I would have liked the option of a box set as well. They might have indeed started to listening to consumers' complaints (especially after the Postwar Kurosawa set). Look at the two individual Mishima releases: if you only want "Yukoku", you can get it damn cheap, for example. Good practice, though somewhat surprising for Criterion.

Great to finally see Ophuls in the collection, in any case. I agree with any complaints about "Lola Montes" or "Liebelei" not being included at this point, but these three films already are must haves if you don't already own them (and I don't). Great cover art in addition, and I'm sure the price point will be much more acceptable at the various e-tailers.

Jonathan S
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#112 Post by Jonathan S » Wed Jun 18, 2008 8:02 am

Narshty wrote:Incidentally, what's going on with La Ronde being 97 minutes still? What about this 110-minute "restored" version that's not been used (possibly to do with rights issues) - has anyone seen it?
I've never even heard of this 110 minute restored version. I thought there might be some confusion with the Vadim remake or even Lola Montes - both 110 minutes - but I see imdb also mentions it (not that that entirely precludes confusion!)

It's such a precisely structured film that it's hard to imagine where an extra 13 minutes could go. Assuming it isn't an error, does anyone know what footage was "restored" and why it was removed in the first place? Was the film subject to censorship? (That would be ironic in view of one of Walbrook's most famous moments in the film!)

Edit: just checked on the Second Sight website which gives a running time of only 89 minutes for their forthcoming release, which, even allowing for PAL speed-up, seems a shorter print even than Criterion's!

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Matt
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#113 Post by Matt » Wed Jun 18, 2008 9:25 am

Cinephrenic wrote:Anyone else disappointed that they couldn't secure more Ophuls film rights?
Yes, I am. Criterion led me to believe that we were getting a veritable tsunami of Ophuls (see here and here). Three films, to me, does not constitute "maxing out" or "several films."

Between these Ophuls (these prices? no box?), the "Essential Arthouse" barebones editions (now?), and the extended Blu-ray striptease they're performing, I have to wonder what's going on over there at Criterion.

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tryavna
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#114 Post by tryavna » Wed Jun 18, 2008 12:21 pm

denti alligator wrote:
GringoTex wrote:
domino harvey wrote:For those who already have the Second Sight Ophuls, La Ronde is coming out on August 4 with many of the same extras as the Criterion, rendering this entire cycle of releases basically worthless. Let them charge full price for three Ophuls films already widely available elsewhere, but don't expect applause for not doing anything more than that.
The Second Sight discs are horrible transfers.
Does that go for Reckless Moment and Letter, too? I was planning on picking those up (especially the latter), now that I know they won't be appearing in the CC anytime soon.
I agree with Domino. The only really bad transfer was the one for Madame de.... The other three were pretty pleasing -- especially considering how cheaply you can pick them up. So I'm really not sure what Gringo's objections are. Jonathan's observation about Second Sight's listed running time for La Ronde may be a concern, though that may just be an error. But Caught seems like a no-brainer at this point.

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Jean-Luc Garbo
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#115 Post by Jean-Luc Garbo » Wed Jun 18, 2008 1:23 pm

No box indeed. Damn. I want to see all three. I'll be getting Madame De... for sure but no box for these three is incredibly stupid.

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david hare
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#116 Post by david hare » Wed Jun 18, 2008 5:20 pm

Matt, re BluRay Striptease (a nice turn of phrase for the annoyance they're putting me through) I gave up ever trying to civilly speak to anyone there anyway after the dismissive rebuttals of "Jon Mulvaney" years ago over things like anamorphic transfers (I think their arrogance to their customers has always been mind bending.)

So maybe somebody else with more patience than me can email them about their plans for Blu firther down the track on current releases. NOBODY is going to spring for things twice now (and definitely not at 40RRP a pop for these) - surely they can devise some sort of retail strategy which allows them to do simultaneous releases (Blu and SD) of given titles, or not. And let us know.

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GringoTex
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#117 Post by GringoTex » Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:24 pm

denti alligator wrote:
GringoTex wrote: The Second Sight discs are horrible transfers.
Does that go for Reckless Moment and Letter, too? I was planning on picking those up (especially the latter), now that I know they won't be appearing in the CC anytime soon.
I exagerrated. Madame de... is unwatchable. Letter and Plasir are muddy but very passable. Reckless Moment is a fine transfer.

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david hare
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#118 Post by david hare » Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:30 pm

I concur with that.

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Max von Mayerling
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#119 Post by Max von Mayerling » Wed Jun 18, 2008 11:05 pm

davidhare wrote:surely they can devise some sort of retail strategy which allows them to do simultaneous releases (Blu and SD) of given titles, or not. And let us know.
Yes, for me, this is what it boils down to. Given the pricing, I'm not going to consider buying these things unless they tell us what they intend to do with respect to Blu.

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Cinephrenic
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#120 Post by Cinephrenic » Wed Jun 18, 2008 11:06 pm

for sure but no box for these three is incredibly stupid
For us yes, for corporate... smart.

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Darth Lavender
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#121 Post by Darth Lavender » Wed Jun 18, 2008 11:10 pm

While the individual prices may or may not be excessive (I'm waiting on more detailed reviews of the extras) I don't think anyone who owns the Second Sight was seriously going to spring for "Le Plaisir" or even "Madame De...." anyway.

Criterion made the smart move (again, assuming they can make the quality and quantity of extras match the price) by releasing these seperately. And, as I said before, I think it shows Criterion is finally starting to take into consideration what's already available overseas.

Don't forget, Box Set does not guarantee either the same quantity of extras, or a significantly cheaper price. Criterion could easily have ended up spreading this out onto 5 or even 6 single-layer DVDs, and charged over $100 for the set (as they did with the Karloff; releasing the two double-features on 4 single-layer disks for $80)

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david hare
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#122 Post by david hare » Wed Jun 18, 2008 11:18 pm

But Darth trouble is the UK Madame de is unwatchable, the UK le Plaisir is only just OK (too dark, boosted, etc) and a new La Ronde is a no brainer so Criterion has us by the balls (or whatever.)

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Darth Lavender
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#123 Post by Darth Lavender » Wed Jun 18, 2008 11:24 pm

True about Madame de.... (avoided buying that, when I heard about the ghosting)

Le Plaisir is, I think, from the French 'Wild Side' company, who tend to be consistantly as good as, or better than, Criterion. And the extras look comparable. It will take a lot of convincing for me to upgrade there. (Admittedly, I've only watched it once, but don't remember anything particularly wrong with it)

La Ronde I'll get eventually. (Although, to tell the truth, I've already got so many unwatched DVDs, I'm holding off buying anything for a while (with the exception of 'Autumn Afternoon' and some of the upcoming Criterion Blurays))

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domino harvey
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#124 Post by domino harvey » Wed Jun 18, 2008 11:27 pm

I've come up with the perfect solution: Shoplift all three titles from Borders.

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klee13
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#125 Post by klee13 » Wed Jun 18, 2008 11:31 pm

domino harvey wrote:I've come up with the perfect solution: Shoplift all three titles from Borders.
And then put them in a painted cardboard box!

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