391 If....

Discuss releases by Criterion and the films on them. Threads may contain spoilers!
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Narshty
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#76 Post by Narshty » Wed Jun 13, 2007 3:53 pm

Check Beaver's screencaps again - the subs are on there.

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indiannamednobody
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#77 Post by indiannamednobody » Wed Jun 13, 2007 4:09 pm

Wow, I imagined a 'no' in the middle of "There are optional english subs". Thanks for the correction, either way this looks like a must own DVD.

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otis
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#78 Post by otis » Wed Jun 13, 2007 4:24 pm

indiannamednobody wrote:Some Britts are a little hard to understand sometimes
Image

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Gropius
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#79 Post by Gropius » Wed Jun 13, 2007 5:16 pm

indiannamednobody wrote:Some Britts are a little hard to understand sometimes
There are no difficult regional accents in If..., since it's set in a boarding school where everyone (as far as I recall) comes close to received pronunciation.

No Geordies or Glaswegians, although the young boy Biles (victim of a toilet head-flushing) is played by a Scottish actor who would grow up to feature in the Scottish sitcom Rab C. Nesbitt, which really would require subtitles (irrelevant trivia fact for the day).

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indiannamednobody
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#80 Post by indiannamednobody » Wed Jun 13, 2007 5:21 pm

Gropius wrote:
indiannamednobody wrote:Some Britts are a little hard to understand sometimes
There are no difficult regional accents in If..., since it's set in a boarding school where everyone (as far as I recall) comes close to received pronunciation.

No Geordies or Glaswegians, although the young boy Biles (victim of a toilet head-flushing) is played by a Scottish actor who would grow up to feature in the Scottish sitcom Rab C. Nesbitt, which really would require subtitles (irrelevant trivia fact for the day).
Thanks for the heads up on the accents. I guess I was thinking about Scottish accents actually cause the first film that came to mind when reading that was Ratcatcher, I just put down Withnail to make the Brittish comparison.

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thethirdman
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#81 Post by thethirdman » Tue Jun 19, 2007 12:01 am

I am surprised Criterion let such a glaring error slip through in Ehrenstein's essay in the booklet. He refers to the "Columbine massacre of 1991."

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Tribe
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#82 Post by Tribe » Tue Jun 19, 2007 12:06 am

thethirdman wrote:I am surprised Criterion let such a glaring error slip through in Ehrenstein's essay in the booklet. He refers to the "Columbine massacre of 1991."
I see a copy editor (or fact checker) getting a serious chewing out over that one.

Aside from Thursday's Children, something of a ho-hum bunch of extras here for my liking.

Tribe

Suzukifan
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#83 Post by Suzukifan » Tue Jun 19, 2007 1:16 pm

Doesn't the re release of If... bring up the logical question of a release of "Zero for Conduct"?

Is a print of that film available? Has it ever been released.

Seems it's more a legend than a film.

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Tribe
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#84 Post by Tribe » Tue Jun 19, 2007 1:27 pm

Suzukifan wrote:Doesn't the re release of If... bring up the logical question of a release of "Zero for Conduct"?

Is a print of that film available? Has it ever been released.

Seems it's more a legend than a film.
That has been screening somewheres with a new print, I believe. Criterion should bring it out eventually.

Tribe

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foggy eyes
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#85 Post by foggy eyes » Tue Jun 19, 2007 2:46 pm


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tryavna
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#86 Post by tryavna » Tue Jun 19, 2007 3:19 pm

foggy eyes wrote:Don't bother waiting.
Nobody who's a member of this forum should not own a copy of that excellent release!

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colinr0380
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 4:30 pm
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#87 Post by colinr0380 » Thu Jun 21, 2007 11:54 am


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Person
Joined: Sat May 19, 2007 3:00 pm

#88 Post by Person » Mon Jul 23, 2007 7:15 pm

I received the UK edition of If.... today. Great transfer and the same extras as the Criterion, although it lacks the trailers, but it cost me £10.99, instead of having to wait until August to pay £17.99 to CD-WOW for the Criterion. It's actually a pity that Criterion didn't locate the full 1985 interview with Lindsay Anderson that is shown in the Cast & Crew programme. Also, Mike Kaplan, who produced Anderson's, The Whales of August, made a documentary on Anderson this year, called, Never Apologize, which looks excellent, judging from those clips.

It feels very, very good to finally have this one on my shelf again after many, many years.

Death to the oppressor.
Last edited by Person on Mon Jul 23, 2007 8:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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foggy eyes
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#89 Post by foggy eyes » Mon Jul 23, 2007 7:41 pm

I was hoping that someone would pick this up and report back on the transfer as soon as possible, so thanks Gordon!
For UK residents, this is a superb option (£10.99 at Amazon, Play and HMV). I'm in.

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Person
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#90 Post by Person » Mon Jul 23, 2007 8:32 pm

Shag off, you creep! :wink:

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zedz
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#91 Post by zedz » Mon Jul 23, 2007 8:56 pm

Person wrote:It's actually a pity that Criterion didn't locate the full 1985 interview with Lindsay Anderson that is shown in the Cast & Crew programme.
I looked at the extras on this disc last night. Nice enough, but there was a lot more that could have been done. It would have been great to see The White Bus on here (if not here, where else?), and Anderson's auto-bio-pic Is That All There Is? would have been an ideal inclusion. Maybe they're saving that for This Sporting Life.

Murasaki53
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#92 Post by Murasaki53 » Tue Jul 24, 2007 2:18 am

If you order the R2 edition from Amazon UK they apparently include a copy of the screenplay too.

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zedz
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#93 Post by zedz » Sun Jul 29, 2007 7:17 pm

Although I was underwhelmed by the second disc of extras, the commentary on this is just superb, one of the best I've ever heard. McDowell is full of great stories and intelligent insights to specific scenes, and Robinson provides essential connective tissue. I only hope that whoever finally gets around to releasing O Lucky Man! gets McDowell on board for the commentary, even if they have to strap him to the chair, Alex-like.

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Steven H
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#94 Post by Steven H » Sun Jul 29, 2007 7:23 pm

zedz, it looks like Warner Bros is putting out O Lucky Man! in October, and according to wikipedia, it will have commentary.

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zedz
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#95 Post by zedz » Sun Jul 29, 2007 7:28 pm

Oh, fantastic! (I turn my back for a moment and. . .) McDowell's got so much of interest to say about If. . . . that he should be even better on a project to which he was exponentially more intrinsic.

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Timec
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#96 Post by Timec » Sat Aug 04, 2007 6:18 pm

DVD Beaver's comparison of the R1 and R2.

Does anyone have any additional information about this:
Pete Hoskin wrote:NOTE (From Michael in email): 'Nice review for this film, but you should mention this is NOT the original version of the film. This is in fact the censored version. I was very disappointed that Criterion did not label it as such. I have seen the DVD and was disappointed that so many years after its original release Criterion has chosen to release a censored version and claims it is the original. Some of the reviews on Amazon.com provide more detail. I think the people who read your website deserve to know.'
I skimmed the Amazon reviews but I didn't see any specifics on what exactly has supposedly been censored.

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tryavna
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#97 Post by tryavna » Sat Aug 04, 2007 6:43 pm

Considering the vagueness of that "NOTE" and the Amazon "reviews" (one of which appears to be by the same "Michael"), I'm not sure what stock to put in it. It reminds me of how those rumors of Criterion's release of Black Narcissus also being the censored version got started.

Perhaps what they're referring to is the fact that Anderson was persuaded to cut a brief shot of male nudity in order to get the X certificate in the UK. Some of this info appears under the Trivia section of IMDb's entry for if...:
In order for the full-frontal nude scene of Mrs Kemp to be passed in the UK chief censor John Trevelyan asked Lindsay Anderson to remove shots of male genitals in the shower scene. Anderson agreed to this and the film was released uncut with an X certificate.
More info here:
The X-Rating
From the official script book: According to Lindsay Anderson there are many versions of the movie floating around the world, most cut according to the dictates of that particular country's film censor boards. In the entire US, only NY had the uncut version at the time of its release while the rest of the country had the cut version. Lindsay mentioned that some scenes were done with different camera angles. Most film censor boards were offended by the showing of some of the boys' genitals in the shower scene and Mrs. Kemp's pubic hair as she wandered through the halls naked later on in the movie. Some versions have different camera angles and some have those scenes cut, either completely or severely pared down. The version of "if...." that is available in the US is 111 minutes. This is exactly the length quoted in the book. So it would be safe to say that the US version contains the "different angle" shots which were probably shown outside the NY area.

During the shower scene there was full frontal nudity of some of the boys.

During Mick's sex scene with the Girl there was full frontal nudity as well.
At any rate, whatever may indeed be missing can't be more than a few seconds of additional flesh shots (or perhaps just footage shot from a different angle). I can't imagine that it matters that much. It apparently didn't to Anderson, if he didn't mind all those "many versions" floating around.
Last edited by tryavna on Sat Aug 04, 2007 6:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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souvenir
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#98 Post by souvenir » Sat Aug 04, 2007 6:49 pm

If I'm reading the Amazon reviews correctly, these people are complaining over Criterion not releasing Anderson's original cut (which is claimed to have been seen in Canada 38 years ago), but what's on DVD seems to still be the original theatrical release version in both the UK and the US.

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zedz
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#99 Post by zedz » Sat Aug 04, 2007 10:01 pm

tryavna wrote:Perhaps what they're referring to is the fact that Anderson was persuaded to cut a brief shot of male nudity in order to get the X certificate in the UK.
According to the commentary, or some other supplement on the disc (or else I've imagined it all), full frontal shots were cut by Anderson himself during the normal editing process, in consultation with McDowell, who felt uncomfortable about their inclusion. So there were shots, and there were cuts, but they had nothing to do with censorship (other than self-censorship). Were there other non-Malc shots that were cut for different reasons, or has an urban legend grown up around this material?

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Billy Liar
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#100 Post by Billy Liar » Sat Aug 04, 2007 10:22 pm

davidhare wrote:The Finale is surrealism (as is much of the movie.) It has far more in common with Zero de Conduite than anything remotely like Elephant.
Agreed David. It is perhaps the greatest British surrealist film to grace good old celluloid. Anderson is the 2nd poet of British cinema. Malcolm is from my fair city of Leeds, so no misunderstanding of the regional accent for me.

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