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 Post subject: Re: 306 Le samouraï
PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 1:56 am 
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NABOB OF NOWHERE wrote:
tenia wrote:
NABOB OF NOWHERE wrote:
Samourai is to be included in the Studio Canal Melville anthology. So there is potentially a third way as opposed to the banjaxed Pathé resto or the Criterion HD master. As evinced by the version on Tavernier's doco....And I promise that this is positively the last time I mention this after 3 posts on the subject.
It could very well be a deal with Pathé to include the Pathé disc in the set, just like it was for the Campion and the Almodovar sets.

That's why I qualified it with 'potentially'. Perhaps Ten you have the answer as to why the clips on the Tavernier doc look so much better than the Pathé version ???
I havent watched the doc' and have no clue as to why. It could simply be that the restoration is bad but the BD is also filtered specifically on top of it, hence the difference ?


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 Post subject: Re: 306 Le samouraï
PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 2:33 pm 
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I emailed Jon Mulvaney about the fact that none of the November releases were listing a Trailer in their respective supplements list, despite the fact that each had the trailer on their previous DVD releases. He replied to me that Le Samourai & Jabberwocky will include the trailer.


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 Post subject: Re: 306 Le samouraï
PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 11:51 pm 
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DVD Beaver


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 Post subject: Re: 306 Le samouraï
PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 11:56 pm 
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Yeah, there's no question Criterion has nailed it! Looks great in every respect.


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 Post subject: Re: 306 Le samouraï
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:02 am 
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No acknowledgment in that review of this title's troubled history on Blu-ray?


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 Post subject: Re: 306 Le samouraï
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 1:49 am 
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I'm unsure Gary followed any of it since it happened mostly in France.

david hare wrote:
Yeah, there's no question Criterion has nailed it! Looks great in every respect.

It's Beaver's caps so they need to be taken with a pinch of salt, but this just looks like to me like an old HD master with its coarse grain. It probably is better than the awful French release, but if the disc indeed looks like this, I don't see many reason to particularly praise it. It's... OK.


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 Post subject: Re: 306 Le samouraï
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 5:26 am 
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I am well aware of the occasional issues with Gary’s screens and always make allowances for them. The grain in these looks perfectly natural to me certainly not “coarse.” The image quality certainly has deeper black level than the Rene Chateau (which is the only disc of it I have.)

Obviously one should wait to see the image losslessly in motion but I have no fears about this being a success. I think youre being unduly negative given every other master out there including the Pathe mk. 2.


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 Post subject: Re: 306 Le samouraï
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:00 am 
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As a gentle reminder we will see next week what the Melville SC french box has to offer. As I keep harping on I have seen a better version via the Tavernier doc. which may or may not be a viable alternative used by SC


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 Post subject: Re: 306 Le samouraï
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:53 am 
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david hare wrote:
I think youre being unduly negative given every other master out there including the Pathe mk. 2.


I'm not.
I understand the Criterion disc can be better than the Pathé disc, but it's hardly an achievement and I don't think this should be cause for celebration because there definitely still seem to be much space for improvement there.
The new restoration was garbage. This Criterion one is, well, a dated HD master. Both seem unsatisfying at various levels and a proper new restoration would most certainly noticeably improve on the Criterion disc. We're probably lucky it's not a poor dated HD master à la L'ange exterminateur or Sword of Doom, but still. It should be updated.


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 Post subject: Re: 306 Le samouraï
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:29 am 

Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2012 5:41 am
tenia wrote:
david hare wrote:
I think youre being unduly negative given every other master out there including the Pathe mk. 2.


I'm not.
I understand the Criterion disc can be better than the Pathé disc, but it's hardly an achievement and I don't think this should be cause for celebration because there definitely still seem to be much space for improvement there.
The new restoration was garbage. This Criterion one is, well, a dated HD master. Both seem unsatisfying at various levels and a proper new restoration would most certainly noticeably improve on the Criterion disc. We're probably lucky it's not a poor dated HD master à la L'ange exterminateur or Sword of Doom, but still. It should be updated.


No wonder they banned you on BD.com. Even they have a standards.


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 Post subject: Re: 306 Le samouraï
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:32 am 
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John Doe wrote:
No wonder they banned you on BD.com. Even they have a standards.

I strongly suggest you reconsider the advisability of posting this sort of comment....


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 Post subject: Re: 306 Le samouraï
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:52 am 
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Beyond John Doe's comments being unnecessary and rude, as far as I'm concerned, Tenia is right. The disc doesn't look bad, but Tenia's assessment is right on, and as I've been pointing out since I saw the 35mm print a few months ago, the Criterion disc just isn't blue enough, and this blu-ray doesn't change that. I maintain that the trailer posted on the release page is the closest to what I saw theatrically.


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 Post subject: Re: 306 Le samouraï
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 11:31 am 
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John Doe wrote:
tenia wrote:
david hare wrote:
I think youre being unduly negative given every other master out there including the Pathe mk. 2.


I'm not.
I understand the Criterion disc can be better than the Pathé disc, but it's hardly an achievement and I don't think this should be cause for celebration because there definitely still seem to be much space for improvement there.
The new restoration was garbage. This Criterion one is, well, a dated HD master. Both seem unsatisfying at various levels and a proper new restoration would most certainly noticeably improve on the Criterion disc. We're probably lucky it's not a poor dated HD master à la L'ange exterminateur or Sword of Doom, but still. It should be updated.


No wonder they banned you on BD.com. Even they have a standards.

Please refrain from baldly insulting other members. Thank you!


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 Post subject: Re: 306 Le samouraï
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:53 pm 
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Again, I'm not dismissing the Criterion release as such, and I'm quite certain it could be an improvement over the FUBAR Pathé release.
But all things considered, it still remains seemingly a relatively old HD master, that was created on a Spirit Datacine about 12-13 years ago. Without taking into consideration any color timing discussion, it just looks as most similarly dated HD master and I strongly believe any proper recent 2K restoration would easily improve on it.


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 Post subject: Re: 306 Le samouraï
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:58 pm 
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Tooze is applying double standards here by saying the French BD wasn't worthwhile comparing with it not being English-friendly. If that's the criteria then what he is doing reviewing BDs of other films that don't have English subs either (Japanese BDs of French films)? Very disingenous.

FWIW, I'm not tempted to upgrade my DVD either, certainly not for this BD.


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 Post subject: Re: 306 Le samouraï
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:31 pm 

Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 9:55 pm
tenia wrote:
Again, I'm not dismissing the Criterion release as such, and I'm quite certain it could be an improvement over the FUBAR Pathé release.
But all things considered, it still remains seemingly a relatively old HD master, that was created on a Spirit Datacine about 12-13 years ago. Without taking into consideration any color timing discussion, it just looks as most similarly dated HD master and I strongly believe any proper recent 2K restoration would easily improve on it.

MK2 and Criterion have already got their versions on the table. Who is going to do another proper restoration? Unlike the Pathé release, the Criterion looks very good, even if we admit the possibility of improving upon it. Unless one is prepared to wait for an indeterminate length of time for a version that may or may not happen, Criterion seems to be the best option.


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 Post subject: Re: 306 Le samouraï
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:43 pm 
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This is not the first French film to have a hideous restoration, and if it's anything like the others, it's likely that this is what we are stuck with for some time: a dated master or a butchered restoration.


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 Post subject: Re: 306 Le samouraï
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:26 pm 
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tenia wrote:
david hare wrote:
I think youre being unduly negative given every other master out there including the Pathe mk. 2.


I'm not.
I understand the Criterion disc can be better than the Pathé disc, but it's hardly an achievement and I don't think this should be cause for celebration because there definitely still seem to be much space for improvement there.
The new restoration was garbage. This Criterion one is, well, a dated HD master. Both seem unsatisfying at various levels and a proper new restoration would most certainly noticeably improve on the Criterion disc. We're probably lucky it's not a poor dated HD master à la L'ange exterminateur or Sword of Doom, but still. It should be updated.


Well Remy you may be right but I still hold out for viewing in motion. I do not understand what you mean by grain in these screens being "coarse" - the image looks sharp, defined and grain seems full without being blown out. (If you want horribly coarse grain l;ook at the really awful new Arrow Academy of The Big Knife. I have no idea what FOx or whoever supplied the master did with the encode) To sort it out what is the provenance of the "new" 4K they're using? And what is the "old" HD master you believe they're using? As others comment above the most singular departure from all other transfers is the lack of a bluer color temp/desaturation in Henri Decae's photography. Decae's other Melvilles are all marked by a signature blue fine grain "look". This should be too and the screens don't suggest that. So youve curbed my enthusiasm.


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 Post subject: Re: 306 Le samouraï
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:28 pm 
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NABOB OF NOWHERE wrote:
As a gentle reminder we will see next week what the Melville SC french box has to offer. As I keep harping on I have seen a better version via the Tavernier doc. which may or may not be a viable alternative used by SC

Happy to see the Tavernier is out on Cohen next month. Have not been able to see it anywhere this year, can't wait.


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 Post subject: Re: 306 Le samouraï
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:57 pm 
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I believe Criterion is using the HD master they used for their 2005 DVD.


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 Post subject: Re: 306 Le samouraï
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 5:17 pm 
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OK. I can't refer to it of course, I don't have it. Always stayed with and happy with the Rene CHateau DVD which has always looked right to me, if soft etc.


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 Post subject: Re: 306 Le samouraï
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 5:23 pm 
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Again, I understand how the Criterion most likely will be serviceable, but I just think it could be finer etc. I also cant speak for the colors being right or not, you know way better than me on this topic.

And yeah, the Rene Chateau most certainly still also is a good DVD alternative.


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 Post subject: Re: 306 Le samouraï
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:46 pm 
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Drucker wrote:
Beyond John Doe's comments being unnecessary and rude, as far as I'm concerned, Tenia is right. The disc doesn't look bad, but Tenia's assessment is right on, and as I've been pointing out since I saw the 35mm print a few months ago, the Criterion disc just isn't blue enough, and this blu-ray doesn't change that. I maintain that the trailer posted on the release page is the closest to what I saw theatrically.
35mm prints can be amazing, but color reproduction in 35mm projection is highly dependent on the color temperature of the projection bulb used which should match the color temperature used for timing the print. If you don't know those two details, or if the print is old or from a different country (different timing standards in some labs based on local projection bulb color temperature realities) or if the bulb is old or if the bulb is set to life preserving lower settings there is really no way to know if a theatrical screening of a well timed print is authoritative or reflective of the intended color temperatures.


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 Post subject: Re: 306 Le samouraï
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 3:59 am 
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I remember a London rep cinema whose screenings would visibly change colour temperature halfway through as the projectionist switched over to the second projector. (Each had feels big enough to handle up to an hour of film.)


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 Post subject: Re: 306 Le samouraï
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 4:54 am 
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david hare wrote:
NABOB OF NOWHERE wrote:
As a gentle reminder we will see next week what the Melville SC french box has to offer. As I keep harping on I have seen a better version via the Tavernier doc. which may or may not be a viable alternative used by SC

Happy to see the Tavernier is out on Cohen next month. Have not been able to see it anywhere this year, can't wait.

David. There is also supposed to be a 6hour plus TV version coming as well but no news yet of a DVD release.
Also just to be clear the 'better' in this case is in relation to the Pathé which is not a hard task.


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