306 Le samouraï

Discuss DVDs and Blu-rays released by Criterion and the films on them. If it's got a spine number, it's in here. Threads may contain spoilers.
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Mungo
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Re: 306 Le samouraï

#151 Post by Mungo » Wed Aug 16, 2017 6:49 pm

Like with Amarcord and Kagemusha?

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domino harvey
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Re: 306 Le samouraï

#152 Post by domino harvey » Wed Aug 16, 2017 6:50 pm

Did those still keep the material for the Blu-ray?

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bdsweeney
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306 Le samouraï

#153 Post by bdsweeney » Wed Aug 16, 2017 6:50 pm

I'm aware that some of the HD transfers of this have been very poor. While the copy states this is a new high-def transfer, have any of the existing HD transfers been up to snuff yet?

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tenia
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Re: 306 Le samouraï

#154 Post by tenia » Wed Aug 16, 2017 6:53 pm

I believe there only is 1 HD restoration, which is subpar indeed, but the first French pressing managed on top of that to filter it furthermore. The 2nd pressing didnt, but the basics are still lacking.

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Re: 306 Le samouraï

#155 Post by domino harvey » Wed Aug 16, 2017 6:58 pm

I'm definitely holding onto my DVD til I see proof :whitneyhoustonreceiptsgif:

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Mungo
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Re: 306 Le samouraï

#156 Post by Mungo » Wed Aug 16, 2017 7:09 pm

domino harvey wrote:Did those still keep the material for the Blu-ray?
At least according to the website, yes, as the extra material post-reissue was labelled (Blu-ray only.)

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Drucker
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Re: 306 Le samouraï

#157 Post by Drucker » Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:47 pm

The original DVD also lists "restored, high-definition digital transfer." Isn't it conceivable they've just upgraded the original master? Maybe with some internal color-correction?

Also, I think the trailer on the Criterion site is pretty damn close to the color I saw the other month in 35mm.

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Re: 306 Le samouraï

#158 Post by Rupert Pupkin » Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:17 pm

[-o< it's difficult to interpret "New high-definition digital restoration, with uncompressed monaural soundtrack on the Blu-ray"
I mean "new" - The Pathé was one of the absolute nadir - the worst restoration I've ever seen. With some painting a-la Paint (old color Mac software from the 90's...). I know that Alain Deloin is crying in his car while it's raining, but it's crying and raining painting everywhere.
I still watch and keep the DVD Criterion which looks quite good on a not so-big HD Sony TV screen.
They (Pathé) slightly de-worsed their transfer without any advert or sign on the packaging to notice which one was the "less-worse".
I think that a less DNR-ized transfer (but from the same restoration) came out in another country (Tenia you probably know which Blu-Ray it is). Japan perhaps, I've take a look at caps-al-holic the Japanese looks just like the same than the Pathé v2.

But it was some time ago... several years ago that the Pathé has been released - something like 5 years ago- how can we interpret the word "new" in Criterion announcement ?
new vs the DVD Criterion. Or new new...? #-o

I have the feeling that for Le Samouraï Pathé fucked up everything during the encoding "digital restoration" (their digital restoration is "tout un programme"). Which means that if Criterion can get a pre-Pathé-ized transfer (like they did for Godard's "Band à Part" - but I have some higher expectations in terms of picture quality although the Godard was quite an emotional rescue and I happy that they got a pre-Gaumont DNR'n'French touch transfer)
I'm a bit afraid with this line "high-definition digital restoration" - as if it implies that there has been no new argentic restoration in the process and that Criterion digitally rework digitally a movie. Has some other Criterion Blu-Ray (which were good in terms of PQ) got that description ?

I've also seen that it will be available via iTunes- will it be available several months before the material DVD/Blu-Ray release ? It's been such a long time that I expected this movie to deserve a good release [-o< By the way, I've never understood what Le Samouraï was plagued in term of restoration. I've never read some stories about some part of the movie would have been damaged and which would explain this painting-raining photoshop treatment. I mean, look how good "Léon Morin" looks on Blu-Ray...

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Re: 306 Le samouraï

#159 Post by movielocke » Thu Aug 17, 2017 12:57 am

I believe Last Temptation of Christ has similar language "restored high-definition digital transfer" but originated from the same HD tape master/harvest that was used for the original DVD issue.

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Re: 306 Le samouraï

#160 Post by Rupert Pupkin » Thu Aug 17, 2017 1:43 am

movielocke wrote:I believe Last Temptation of Christ has similar language "restored high-definition digital transfer" but originated from the same HD tape master/harvest that was used for the original DVD issue.
thanks. I'm a bit disoriented by "new" - it's a good news if this they start from scratch and if this has nothing to do with the Pathé Blu-Ray.
Generally I've been pleased with the blu-ray upgrade from their old DVD catalog. "Sweetie" for instance. The DVD upscaled was really nice on my first HD TV Sony (perhaps because they didn't use too much edge enhancement, etc... and even if the DVD resolution can not capture the "grain" texture (or just a kind of "extrapolation") well, you already have a film-like experience with the DVD upscaled. Thus, when the Blu-Ray upgrade came out, I was really pleased with the quality (New, restored digital transfer).
Same comments could go for "Naked".

even if the Samouraï DVD Criterion is old, could it be possible that they had a HD master on their hard-drive (like for the titles "Naked" or "Sweetie", and would work with this material rather than the Pathé restoration ?
This happened with "Plein Soleil" (not prime material, but the Criterion Blu-Ray is very pleasing) - there has been a French restoration, the theatrical re-release was superb (I was there) but the color-grade of the Blu-Ray was somehow disturbing to say the least. StudioCanal claimed that was closed to Henri Decaë's original intention. But if you watch the excellent documentary from "Plein Soleil" you have a lot of indication about colors, etc... the scene with the fish, the buddha statue, the murder scene with the fruits- and the Criterion Blu-Ray seems close to these descriptions...

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Re: 306 Le samouraï

#161 Post by Werewolf by Night » Thu Aug 17, 2017 12:45 pm

domino harvey wrote:I'm definitely holding onto my DVD til I see proof :whitneyhoustonreceiptsgif:
Ditto. There's no way in hell I'm buying this before I see screen caps from multiple sources.

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Re: 306 Le samouraï

#162 Post by FrauBlucher » Thu Aug 17, 2017 3:10 pm

Recently announced Vampyr has the same description more or less...

"High-definition digital transfer of the original German-language version of the film from the 1998 restoration"

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Re: 306 Le samouraï

#163 Post by dwk » Thu Aug 17, 2017 4:46 pm

Both Harakiri and The Sword of Doom say "New, restored high-definition digital transfer, with uncompressed monaural soundtrack on the Blu-ray edition." So this is most likely the DVD master. However, I can't recall them re-releasing a title as a new DVD when the Blu-ray is from the same master as the DVD, even if the Blu has some new special features.

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Re: 306 Le samouraï

#164 Post by NABOB OF NOWHERE » Thu Aug 17, 2017 5:11 pm

I will repeat a note I made on this thread earlier this year -
On the Gaumont/Pathé blu edition of Tavernier's 'Journey through french cinema' the clips from Samourai look eminently better than my Pathé blu.
I don't know the provenance but it does suggest there seems to be a third way that either doesn't involve the Pathé nor Criterion master or might be a different encoding.

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Re: 306 Le samouraï

#165 Post by Drucker » Thu Aug 17, 2017 5:21 pm

Their versions of Repo Man and Two-Lane Blacktop both looked like pre-DNR versions of the MOC let's not forget.

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Re: 306 Le samouraï

#166 Post by dwk » Thu Aug 17, 2017 5:39 pm

Criterion's Repo Man was from a new master that they created. But, since you mentioned it, Two-Lane Blacktop also says "New, restored high-definition digital transfer, with uncompressed monaural soundtrack on the Blu-ray edition" and that was the same master as the DVD.

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Re: 306 Le samouraï

#167 Post by Robespierre » Mon Aug 21, 2017 1:30 am

It seems like a lazy way to release this film if they're going to just reuse a 10+ year old master. I'll hold on to my DVD until I see caps.

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Re: 306 Le samouraï

#168 Post by domino harvey » Mon Aug 21, 2017 1:47 am

You don't want the new master

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Re: 306 Le samouraï

#169 Post by Robespierre » Wed Aug 23, 2017 1:00 am

From all accounts I've heard it's horrid but for a big title like this one I would've expected a new scan, but perhaps the elements aren't available or it's prohibitively expensive. I've gotten somewhat used to being spoiled by 2K and 4K remasters from CC that it's distorts my expectations a bit. As long as it's not DNR'd, filtered or colour boosted it should be ok.

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Re: 306 Le samouraï

#170 Post by NABOB OF NOWHERE » Wed Aug 23, 2017 9:49 am

Samourai is to be included in the Studio Canal Melville anthology. So there is potentially a third way as opposed to the banjaxed Pathé resto or the Criterion HD master. As evinced by the version on Tavernier's doco....And I promise that this is positively the last time I mention this after 3 posts on the subject.

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Re: 306 Le samouraï

#171 Post by mistakaninja » Wed Aug 23, 2017 9:56 am

NABOB OF NOWHERE wrote:Samourai is to be included in the Studio Canal Melville anthology.
Really? When was that confirmed?

It wasn't in their DVD box and it wasn't mentioned as being included in the BFI press statement. And the image used from the film on the BFI webpage about the upcoming Melville season is credited to the BFI, whereas the other films from the boxset are credited to other distributors and StudioCanal (e.g. SC/Park Circus or SC/Rialto).

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Re: 306 Le samouraï

#172 Post by NABOB OF NOWHERE » Wed Aug 23, 2017 10:15 am

mistakaninja wrote:
NABOB OF NOWHERE wrote:Samourai is to be included in the Studio Canal Melville anthology.
Really? When was that confirmed?

It wasn't in their DVD box and it wasn't mentioned as being included in the BFI press statement. And the image used from the film on the BFI webpage about the upcoming Melville season is credited to the BFI, whereas the other films from the boxset are credited to other distributors and StudioCanal (e.g. SC/Park Circus or SC/Rialto).
See the listing on Amazon.fr

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tenia
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Re: 306 Le samouraï

#173 Post by tenia » Wed Aug 23, 2017 11:26 am

NABOB OF NOWHERE wrote:Samourai is to be included in the Studio Canal Melville anthology. So there is potentially a third way as opposed to the banjaxed Pathé resto or the Criterion HD master. As evinced by the version on Tavernier's doco....And I promise that this is positively the last time I mention this after 3 posts on the subject.
It could very well be a deal with Pathé to include the Pathé disc in the set, just like it was for the Campion and the Almodovar sets.

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Re: 306 Le samouraï

#174 Post by NABOB OF NOWHERE » Wed Aug 23, 2017 1:44 pm

tenia wrote:
NABOB OF NOWHERE wrote:Samourai is to be included in the Studio Canal Melville anthology. So there is potentially a third way as opposed to the banjaxed Pathé resto or the Criterion HD master. As evinced by the version on Tavernier's doco....And I promise that this is positively the last time I mention this after 3 posts on the subject.
It could very well be a deal with Pathé to include the Pathé disc in the set, just like it was for the Campion and the Almodovar sets.
That's why I qualified it with 'potentially'. Perhaps Ten you have the answer as to why the clips on the Tavernier doc look so much better than the Pathé version ???

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Re: 306 Le samouraï

#175 Post by FrauBlucher » Wed Aug 23, 2017 5:20 pm

Drucker wrote:Also, I think the trailer on the Criterion site is pretty damn close to the color I saw the other month in 35mm.
I think this is pretty much how it will look barring compression issues. The clip looks pretty good to me. I'll take it.

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