306 Le samouraï

Discuss DVDs and Blu-rays released by Criterion and the films on them. If it's got a spine number, it's in here. Threads may contain spoilers.
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matrixschmatrix
Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 11:26 pm

Re: 306 Le samourai

#126 Post by matrixschmatrix » Wed Dec 07, 2011 5:44 pm

Haha, I usually have no idea of what you guys are talking about when you say blus look waxy or show excessive DNR or whatever, but Jesus Christ is that awful

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Matt
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Re: 306 Le samourai

#127 Post by Matt » Mon Feb 06, 2012 1:09 pm

Just so ya know, Madonna's new album has a song, "Beautiful Killer," that is an homage to this movie.

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manicsounds
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Re: 306 Le samourai

#128 Post by manicsounds » Tue Aug 06, 2013 11:16 am

Caps-a-holic compares the Pathe BD and the Criterion DVD

Check that first BD screencap up close, it looks like a cartoon.

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EddieLarkin
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Re: 306 Le samourai

#129 Post by EddieLarkin » Tue Aug 06, 2013 11:19 am

That looks similar to Madame de... but several times worse. What exactly is the filter being applied and what is the reasoning for it? I mean I get why some loons might want to degrain a film, but what is the motivation behind turning it into a watercolour painting?

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tenia
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Re: 306 Le samourai

#130 Post by tenia » Tue Aug 06, 2013 11:34 am

I need to find the link back, but I've seen caps comparing the 1st pressing VS the 2nd one. Basically, the mosaic filter is all gone, but that's it. It's still quite soft and lacking of details, but at least, it doesn't look like a water painting anymore.

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movielocke
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Re: 306 Le samourai

#131 Post by movielocke » Mon Oct 20, 2014 9:51 pm

I've finally gotten to this Melville and I am frustrated and in awe, the film left me thinking and rethinking its contents in a way I haven't for any of the other Melville films. While it's not quite the genre perfection of Le Doulos it is richer and more nuanced which is an interesting feat considering how Le Samourai strips away so much ornamentation. The film sings but it is a desiccated skeleton of genre, all the flesh eaten away, the petrified bones resonating in a thunderous and pure symphonic thrum.

It's an odd experience, coming to this film so late in my viewings of Melville and of course of having seen so many films that have come after, Drive, for instance is pretty much an uncredited remake, going so far as to use every plot point and an identical main character in its shallow imitation of Le Samourai. And the influences on so many contemporary filmmakers are probably too many to enumerate.

To a certain extent, I'm a little hung up on the title. I understand why Melville named it as he did, but I feel a tiny bit irritated by it, using Samurai as a sort of short hand, as a heuristic, to compress all these values into Jef because it seems like a slightly limited interpretation. But in reading Melville's interview included in the booklet, I think he's writing Jef as someone who has taken all the 'cool' aspects of samurai out of context of the tokugawa period and created a sort of persona for themselves, an ideal to strive towards that is neither realistic nor especially representative. The title, in that respect, is a reflection of Jef's internal vision and narrative of himself. In a sense, that suggests that the whole film, not just the second job, is Jef setting the terms of this death, and this may explain some of his behavior at the beginning, because after he shoots his first mark, he becomes somewhat reckless, letting people see him, walking out in broad view, getting picked up by the police, it's as though he wants to be set up by the mobsters on grounds Jef chooses. The film has a very fate heavy ominous tone, moving inexorably towards its ritualized finale, and I think that will make it all the stronger on repeat viewings, even as it left me a little exasperated and amazed on a first look.

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feihong
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Re: 306 Le samourai

#132 Post by feihong » Mon Oct 20, 2014 10:33 pm

I would say that Melville has taken all of the "cool" aspects out of Hollywood noir and gangster films as well, in much the same way you describe his use of the Samurai. And to me one of the great things about Le Samourai is the way Melville is always subtly pointing out the artifice in his homage. It's interesting that you would come to it last. When I started on Melville, Le Samourai was the only film readily available. I always thought of it as the film that makes all the others Melville films make sense--at least, it's hard to imagine Le Cercle Rouge or Un Flic without Le Samourai, but it's hard not to see its abstract gamesmanship behind Bob Le Flambeur, as something he was already aspiring to achieve.

If Criterion finally does a blu-ray of this film, I hope against hope that they manage some kind of fix for the French blu-ray disaster. I don't know how the French can tolerate that release.

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tenia
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Re: 306 Le samourai

#133 Post by tenia » Tue Oct 21, 2014 4:37 am

feihong wrote:I don't know how the French can tolerate that release.
Most of us don't, and are waiting for Criterion to release a proper HD upgrade of Le samourai.

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manicsounds
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Re: 306 Le samourai

#134 Post by manicsounds » Tue Oct 21, 2014 4:57 am

feihong wrote:I don't know how the French can tolerate that release.
They didn't. That's why it was re-remastered, and reissued in France with a better transfer.

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tenia
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Re: 306 Le samourai

#135 Post by tenia » Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:11 am

manicsounds wrote:That's why it was re-remastered, and reissued in France with a better transfer.
A better transfer that we still only barely tolerate because it's still not up to what it should be.

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danieltiger
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Re: 306 Le samourai

#136 Post by danieltiger » Tue Jun 16, 2015 2:53 pm

Criterion is adding an HD version to iTunes on July 14th. Hopefully this means an imminent Blu-ray release!

WorstFella
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Re: 306 Le samourai

#137 Post by WorstFella » Tue Jul 14, 2015 4:51 pm

Sadly, the iTunes HD appears to be sourced from the same transfer as the Criterion DVD, so a blu is probably a long ways off yet.

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feihong
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Re: 306 Le samourai

#138 Post by feihong » Fri Apr 01, 2016 4:09 am

Kadokawa in Japan is releasing a blu ray of Le Samourai in May.

There is a huge product description on Amazon Japan. Google Translate can only make a magical hash out of it, but the translation I read offers some potentially encouraging stuff. It seems to be talking about the French blu ray and how bad it was. It seems to be saying it will offer something much higher quality? They are boasting about a high–quality encoding process. Maybe if someone here reads Japanese they will be able to make better sense of it.

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NLK71
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Re: 306 Le samourai

#139 Post by NLK71 » Fri Apr 01, 2016 10:46 pm

feihong wrote:Kadokawa in Japan is releasing a blu ray of Le Samourai in May.

There is a huge product description on Amazon Japan. Google Translate can only make a magical hash out of it, but the translation I read offers some potentially encouraging stuff. It seems to be talking about the French blu ray and how bad it was. It seems to be saying it will offer something much higher quality? They are boasting about a high–quality encoding process. Maybe if someone here reads Japanese they will be able to make better sense of it.
Actually I think the blurb is saying the HD master is the most recent 2011 digital restoration by Pathe in France and that its "high-definition is flawless" - ゴミ傷一つない高画質 -. Google translate unhelpfully renders this as "dust scratch one no high-quality!".

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manicsounds
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Re: 306 Le samourai

#140 Post by manicsounds » Sat Apr 02, 2016 11:04 am

HDマスターは2011年、フランスのパテ社がデジタル修復した最新版で、ゴミ傷一つない高画質!
The HD master was created in 2011 by Pathe France, a newly digitally remastered version without a speck of dirt on the high quality image!

Well, we know what happened to the original French BD....

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kindaikun
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:04 pm

Re: 306 Le samourai

#141 Post by kindaikun » Sat Apr 02, 2016 11:21 am

There's this too:
Blu-rayではこの魅力を最大限に味わっていただくため、スタジオジブリ全作品等のBlu-rayで定評のあるMGVC(マスターグレードビデオコーディング)を採用、2層ディスクの大容量で最高画質を追求!
In order to allow you to fully enjoy [the cinematography], we will be using MGVC (Master Grade Video Coding), the well-respected [technology] used on all the Studio Ghibli blu-rays, and a full-to-capacity dual-layer disc in order to deliver the best possible picture quality.

Sounds promising...

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diamonds
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Re: 306 Le samourai

#142 Post by diamonds » Fri Mar 17, 2017 6:43 pm

There hasn't been a follow-up discussion regarding the Japanese release, but it looks like caps-a-holic has shots of it up along with a re-release of the French disk here. Both of them look a lot better up close than the original French blu with the watercolor filter. The colors appear to be the same, significantly darker than the Criterion release, and I'm not sure if that's what the film is supposed to look like but there you have it.

davidhuxley
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Re: 306 Le samouraï

#143 Post by davidhuxley » Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:59 am

Is anyone aware of a second DVD printing of this title? Copies have surfaced that have the same catalog number and ISBN as the 2005 edition (SAM150 / 0-78003-018-4), but has the statement "Second printing 2014". Although it was issued in a pre-2006 black keep case, it has the post-2006 logo, and a redesigned back cover with a back of the cover photograph which isn't visible unless removed from the case. (This feature is usually used only on a transparent case so that the image is visible when the case is opened.) The opening menu is identical to the one used in the 2005 edition, retaining the old straight line logo. I don't know of any other title which has been given a second printing" without it being reissued for some apparent reason, either a new transfer, or an error in the first printing, nor any pre-2006 title being reprinted with the current logo but issued in an old case. Perhaps this was a manufacturing error and should have been in a transparent case? (Otherwise why print an image that can't even be seen!) Any help would be appreciated.

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Minkin
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Re: 306 Le samouraï

#144 Post by Minkin » Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:42 pm

davidhuxley wrote:Is anyone aware of a second DVD printing of this title? Copies have surfaced that have the same catalog number and ISBN as the 2005 edition (SAM150 / 0-78003-018-4), but has the statement "Second printing 2014". Although it was issued in a pre-2006 black keep case, it has the post-2006 logo, and a redesigned back cover with a back of the cover photograph which isn't visible unless removed from the case. (This feature is usually used only on a transparent case so that the image is visible when the case is opened.) The opening menu is identical to the one used in the 2005 edition, retaining the old straight line logo. I don't know of any other title which has been given a second printing" without it being reissued for some apparent reason, either a new transfer, or an error in the first printing, nor any pre-2006 title being reprinted with the current logo but issued in an old case. Perhaps this was a manufacturing error and should have been in a transparent case? (Otherwise why print an image that can't even be seen!) Any help would be appreciated.
It was reprinted and they used the black case? That would make it the first black case since the new logo era (2006). Weird. Perhaps they had some spare cases about the factory? Other than Schizopolis - I can't see any reason for Criterion to use a solid color plastic case that blocks off the interior artwork. Criterion's website has it listed as one of those "Buy at Amazon" - which indicates a new printing.

Do the Right Thing was also recently reprinted - but it kept the old cover/everything - but now has the wacky C. Now that I'm pressed - I have no idea whether it was a black or transparent case. I'm surprised they bothered as both of these have been long overdo for a new edition. But perhaps these will only receive Blu upgrades, thus they're just updating with the new logo or copyright info / new pressing - but keeping everything else the same. Still can't explain the black case though!

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TwoTecs
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Re: 306 Le samouraï

#145 Post by TwoTecs » Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:12 pm

https://www.reddit.com/r/criterion/comm ... ray_is_on/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

An r/Criterion user got this answer from Jon Mulvaney regarding the new branding on the disc:
I don't think your copy is a bootleg. It's true, we updated the DVD edition with the new branding and the booklet turned into an insert. The Cat/ISBN numbers all stayed the same. This version was only out for a bit and has now gone out of print temporarily while we prepare for a newer edition.
The disc is indeed not on sale on the Criterion website right now but available from other sellers. An upgrade seems in the works.

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Minkin
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Re: 306 Le samouraï

#146 Post by Minkin » Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:43 am

TwoTecs wrote:https://www.reddit.com/r/criterion/comm ... ray_is_on/

An r/Criterion user got this answer from Jon Mulvaney regarding the new branding on the disc:
I don't think your copy is a bootleg. It's true, we updated the DVD edition with the new branding and the booklet turned into an insert. The Cat/ISBN numbers all stayed the same. This version was only out for a bit and has now gone out of print temporarily while we prepare for a newer edition.
That's the first official comment on what we've been speculating for years now - that the various "out of stock" editions or "temporarily OOP" means they are in between print runs and/or are putting forth a new edition. Everyone else who's tried to ask about these gets the default message "while we try and maintain our library some editions go OOP... and there's no plans at this time." - Whenever someone gets that message, I think their automated software just immediately responds with that - otherwise they're giving away their release schedule.

This should be reassuring to those wanting Pandora's Box / BRD Trilogy / Sternberg /etc (see the Criterion OOP thread for more).

So this black case edition has already come and gone? I know Le Samourai is popular, but sheesh. I guess its probably one of the most requested blu upgrades (alongside Andrei Rublev)

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NABOB OF NOWHERE
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Re: 306 Le samouraï

#147 Post by NABOB OF NOWHERE » Tue Mar 21, 2017 5:11 am

On the Gaumont/Pathé blu edition of Tavernier's 'Journey through french cinema' the clips from Samourai look eminently better than my Pathé blu. I don't pretend to know what that implies but there you are. This goes also for some other Gaumont /Pathé /Studio Canal overscrubs - principally Becker's titles.

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david hare
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Re: 306 Le samouraï

#148 Post by david hare » Wed Mar 22, 2017 4:13 pm

I think the discs you mention might have been mastered/scanned by digimage not Eclair. Ditto the Pagnol tri
logy 4Ks and more.

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Ribs
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Re: 306 Le samouraï

#149 Post by Ribs » Wed Aug 16, 2017 4:23 pm

Upgrade in November!!!

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domino harvey
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Re: 306 Le samouraï

#150 Post by domino harvey » Wed Aug 16, 2017 6:41 pm

Strangely, it sounds like Criterion is downsizing the DVD booklet only for this reissue
PLUS: An essay by film scholar David Thomson. The Blu-ray also features an appreciation by filmmaker John Woo and excerpts from Melville on Melville.
Those all intitally appeared in the DVD booklet...

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