34 Andrei Rublev

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ando · #26 Post by **ando** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 12:55 pm

Well, where does faith fit as a theme in Andre Rublev? How is the subject handled? After all, the film is what the thread is about. Reading these posts (many of which seem a bit like harangues), almost no one has alluded to how the character of Rublev incorporates faith into his outlook or perspective on life or art (via the film). Rublev and Theophanes The Greek discourse quite passionately on the subject of belief just before Rublev goes to paint the great cathedral, for example. Where do you think Tarkovsky's voice is in this? Is there any clearly discernable religious point of view taken by Tarkovsky in this film, in general?

Sai · #27 Post by **Sai** » Sun Apr 03, 2005 7:05 pm

On the topic of Tarkovsky's religious beliefs: what I found strange after reading Sculpting in Time and Time Within Time was that Tarkovsky seemed to bind his religious beliefs mostly to his art. In Sculpting in Time, the book containing his views on film, there are more religious references than in Time Within Time, his diaries. In fact, there is very little talk about God or Jesus in Time Within Time, while it seems more logical that a Christian would put his thoughts about God in his diary than in a film theory book (even though there isn't much in there too).

In any case, I think Tarkovsky's beliefs were very personal. If you want to, you can even read some anti-Christian subtext in his movies. Stalker can be seen as an allegory for religion, and when the crossbearers pass in Andrei Rubljov a somewhat anti-Christian monologue is given (I don't remember exactly, but I think it gave some sort of all-should-unite-as-humans/Russians-message).

ando wrote:Is there any clearly discernable religious point of view taken by Tarkovsky in this film, in general?

There is symbolism, of course. The church as a last refuge, the crossbearers, Rubljov laying on a table like Christ on the cross (if I remember correctly) and just overall strong religious undertones. Tarkovsky's 'first' films carry less explicit Christian elements because of the Mosfilm and Goskino censorship, but they are still there, and are pretty easy to find.

jorencain · #28 Post by **jorencain** » Sun Apr 03, 2005 9:21 pm

PoetWarrior wrote:You're right.

Thanks for that. Keep those pearls coming. I love the epic scope of "Rublev" and, being the first Tarkovsky I saw, I've got a soft spot for it. I don' see how anyone could call it weak (I would just like to hear some resons why it could be called "lesser"). The cinematography of the battle scenes is just gorgeous, as is the score, and I love those landscapes and castles; looks very authentic to me. It's showing in Baltimore in a couple weeks, and I really can't wait to see it on the big screen.

tryavna · #29 Post by **tryavna** » Sun May 01, 2005 12:40 pm

I don't consider Rublev to be a lesser film at all. Simply because it is more accessible than many of Tarkovsky's later films does not necessarily mean it is weaker. Frankly, I've always considered the making-of-the-bell segment to be one of Tarkovsky's most moving, most amazing sequences.

bunuelian · #30 Post by **bunuelian** » Sun May 01, 2005 12:47 pm

I caught Rublev at AFI a couple weeks ago. It was my first time catching it on the big screen - what a radical departure from seeing it on my little tv! A profound and enthralling experience - and I saw it with two friends who actually liked it, which made it all the better. Tarkovsky's subtle camera movements are so much more sublime on the big screen.

It's very unfortunate that this thread is cluttered with so much garbage.

jorencain · #31 Post by **jorencain** » Sun May 01, 2005 2:36 pm

I actually saw Rublev yesterday in Baltimore on the big screen. I have to agree that there's no comparison with seeing it at home. Although someone fell asleep in the theater and snored for a good 15 minutes, pissing off the rest of the audience immensely, it was a great experience. I would have to say that this is my favorite Tarkovsky, as there is so much packed into it, and I respond more to the epic sweep of it all and it having more characters than most (or all) of his other films. The Tatar invasion is so intense, intercutting to the people inside the church; and the flashbacks between the Grand Prince and his brother make that entire segment so powerful. Foma's death also has to be one of the best deaths in cinema, I might add. "The Bell" is, of course, fantastic, and my heart was beating in my chest as they're waiting for the bell to ring, and the 2 guys speaking Italian are betting whether or not it actually will.

ando · #32 Post by **ando** » Wed May 11, 2005 1:40 pm

Agreed. Conversely, the panning shots of the inhabitants of the barn (where the fool has his "audience"), though absolutely silent, if not downright meditative, are equally as stunning. In fact, the passage which includes the betrayal of the fool is one of my favorite in all cinema. I can't help but compare this passage (in terms of the visually poetic) to similar treatments (particluarly of the innate dignity of common life) in Orson Welles' Chimes At Midnight or Peter Brooks King Lear (or in lieu of the visual effects during Lear's storm scene - King Smear

).

blindside8zao · #33 Post by **blindside8zao** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 2:24 pm

I really love Solaris, the Mirror, and Andrei Rublev. I am very excited to see more Tarkovsky but am hesitant to buy any AE releases as I have heard they are insufficient. I am also not interested in buying an all-region DVD player.

Does anyone have any comments on the AE versions of the Mirror and his other films? Does anyone think Criterion will be releasing anymore Tarkovsky?

Simon · #34 Post by **Simon** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 2:56 pm

If you love Tarkovsky, you definitely need to pick up Stalker. There is not that much difference between all the different versions. You can make you own mind here:

http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film/DVDCompare5/stalker3.htm

Jem · #35 Post by **Jem** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 12:42 pm

I enjoyed this review by Matthew Dessem

AK · #36 Post by AK » Sat Apr 15, 2006 8:22 am

blindside8zao wrote:I really love Solaris, the Mirror, and Andrei Rublev. I am very excited to see more Tarkovsky but am hesitant to buy any AE releases as I have heard they are insufficient. I am also not interested in buying an all-region DVD player.

Does anyone have any comments on the AE versions of the Mirror and his other films? Does anyone think Criterion will be releasing anymore Tarkovsky?

I own the Artificial Eye Mirror, which is, considering the circumstances, all rightâ€”possibly we couldn't find a better version yet available. That is, I haven't noticed any defects. Of course, if you order it from http://www.amazon.co.uk, it isn't that expensive (it does sport the original mono soundtrack, for which I'm grateful). But if you don't own a region-free DVD player, then it's a completely different matter.

I haven't been able to see any other AE Tarkovskys, yet I have heard the same things as you have, that they aren't that great releases. Naturally, my opinion possibly doesn't weight all that much considering that I haven't seen them yet.

As for more Criterion Tarkovsky, any rumours are welcomed. Nostalghia, and/or Mirror (naturally) would be the sweetest thing imaginable.

Edit: They keep a close eye on the DVDs (aside from DVDBeaver), if you haven't checked it out already.

skuhn8 · #37 Post by **skuhn8** » Sat Apr 15, 2006 8:44 am

Simon wrote:If you love Tarkovsky, you definitely need to pick up Stalker. There is not that much difference between all the different versions. You can make you own mind here

Love Tarkovsky; can't stand Stalker. Just watched the AE The Mirror a couple days ago. If not flawless it is a very good quality dvd imo. I wouldn't wait for a better version.

Greathinker · #38 Post by **Greathinker** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 1:52 pm

This film cast a spell on me. Can we expect another version will be coming along, possibly with both cuts included, or should I just go for the criterion?

#39 Post by **zedz** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 7:37 pm

Achris wrote:This film cast a spell on me. Can we expect another version will be coming along, possibly with both cuts included, or should I just go for the criterion?

Somewhere in this forum recently (and now I can't find it), somebody posted that a Criterion reissue was due before the end of the year. May well be no more than wishful thinking, of course.

zone_resident · #40 Post by **zone_resident** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 7:49 pm

Re-release of Andrei Rublev mas mentioned in Old Films/Late Fellini thread (June 3):

received an email from CRITERIONDVD.COM on thursday that says that AMARCORD, SEVEN SAMURAI, YOJIMBO, and ANDREI RUBLEV will be re-released at the end of this year. No other details were mentioned but i do know that better prints of all of those movies are out there so it does make sense that Criterion will re-release them.

If true, this would be great news.

#41 Post by **zedz** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 8:18 pm

Oh good, so it wasn't just advancing senility.

Obviously, such a re-release should include both of the major versions, especially as there's some doubt as to which one best reflects Tarkovsky's intentions. The partial commentary could do with expansion, and several of the key collaborators are still alive and kicking (Konchalovsky, Burlyayev, Nazarov - who's pretty sharp on Tarkovsky's handling of actors, Rausch. Even Yusov is still with us, apparently).

HerrSchreck · #42 Post by **HerrSchreck** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 1:22 am

If ever a release screamed for a rerelease it's RUBLYEV. An ARKADIN type box would be a scream. Or would make me scream. And jump. For joy.

That film is like a brand new pagan religion all unto itself, beginning & ending with the film. Sublime, endlessly rewarding. The first ("balloon")scene, I'm still speechless, can barely find the words to type this, years later...

Arkepuschka!!!

AK · #43 Post by AK » Wed Jun 07, 2006 6:15 am

zone_resident wrote:Re-release of Andrei Rublev mas mentioned in Old Films/Late
Fellini thread (June 3):

received an email from CRITERIONDVD.COM on thursday that says that AMARCORD, SEVEN SAMURAI, YOJIMBO, and ANDREI RUBLEV will be re-released at the end of this year. No other details were mentioned but i do know that better prints of all of those movies are out there so it does make sense that Criterion will re-release them.
If true, this would be great news.

How do you do. A June Update? Haven't received it yet myself, which is a shame. I wonder if this has anything to do with it, but CriterionDVD.com has low stock of Rublev at the moment. Could be unrelated, but could be...

zedz wrote:Oh good, so it wasn't just advancing senility.

Obviously, such a re-release should include both of the major versions, especially as there's some doubt as to which one best reflects Tarkovsky's intentions. The partial commentary could do with expansion, and several of the key collaborators are still alive and kicking (Konchalovsky, Burlyayev, Nazarov - who's pretty sharp on Tarkovsky's handling of actors, Rausch. Even Yusov is still with us, apparently).

How do you do. Both versions would make an ultimate Rublev Experience, especially if they clean them up as well as they just can. Making it anamorphic is in itself a great upgrade, yet I wonder if they are going to do anything with the cropping that is in some parts of the film rather excessive, as you know. Also, I wonder how this re-release coincides with the rumoured Tarkovsky title coming this autumn, rumoured to be either Ivan's Childhood or Nostalghia. (I'm rooting for the latter). If this happens, I wonder if they'll change the artwork. The cover has to be my favourite of any DVD yet produced.

gubbelsj · #44 Post by **gubbelsj** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 11:12 am

Criteriondvd.com sent me an email on May 30 announcing planned re-releases, too, but made no mention of Rublev. Here's what I received;

WITHDRAWALS AND RE-RELEASES:

Criterion is planning to release improved versions of the following titles this
fall:

AKIRA KUROSAWA: FOUR SAMURAI CLASSICS
AMARCORD
SANJURO
SEVEN SAMURAI
THIRD MAN
YOJIMBO

The old releases will still be available for sale while supply lasts!

I wish Rublev had been mentioned, but it wasn't. Was my email different from others?

bunuelian · #45 Post by **bunuelian** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 11:31 am

I'd be thrilled to have a good anamorphic release. I, too, hope they include both versions, though if the banter on here about the low sales of this title are any indication, it'll be a gesture of love rather than commercial viability, and I'm skeptical about the "new" Criterion's willingness to take big financial risks. I could be very wrong . . . I'd like to be very wrong.

jorencain · #46 Post by **jorencain** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 11:46 am

gubbelsj wrote:I wish Rublev had been mentioned, but it wasn't. Was my email different from others?

That's what I got also. The Rublev news is new to me too.

Napoleon · #47 Post by **Napoleon** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 11:57 am

Tastes and intestest in 'world cinema' (hate that phrase) have evolved exponentially since this first came out. Maybe it hasn't sold much since because the disk and transfer are not the best, but a 2-3 disk set of this would surely sell well (at least in cc terms)?

Hands up who wouldn't buy/re-buy this?

I would have thought the more likely stumbling block would be getting decent film elements.

atcolomb · #48 Post by **atcolomb** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 1:08 pm

I have the RUSCICO version of Andrei Rublev which is a two disc all region and is the shorter version which is at 185 minutes while the Criterion version is at 205 minutes. The image on the Ruscico is ok but does have some nice extras on it . I think Criterion will re-release it at some time since the current version came out in 1999!

miless · #49 Post by **miless** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 8:06 pm

the original transfer was done with a screening print that was made of the original "Passion" edit, and not from the original negatives. The print was cropped for projection, so there isn't much that can be done for the Passion edit of the film. the shorter version, however, does exist in the original negatives and would be possible to get a much better image...
it is unfortunate that the 205 minute version could not be salvaged, but I am pretty sure that most of the excised footage is lost (and the soundtrack and edits changed since that original edit... making a reconstruction pretty difficult, if not impossible)
I hope that they do a progressive and anamorphic transfer of that original screening print for the 205 minute and then do the whole shebang with the 185 minute version (which was Tarkovsky's favored edit... although I find that hard to believe) as the original elements still exist...
It'll be something like the recent release of Mr. Arkadin/Confidential Report or the past releases with Carnival of Souls (where the directors cut is, unfortunately, lower in quality to the exhibition release version), The Leopard or Terminal Station/Indiscretions of an American Wife.

Steven H · #50 Post by **Steven H** » Tue Nov 21, 2006 10:56 pm

Since this *is* going to be rereleased at some point, per mention in On Five (I couldn't care less about the other two mentioned, but that's me) maybe there should be some talk about what we're expecting? Versions, docs, commentarists, scholarly writings, and interviews, since they guiltily admit to reading the forum, some public recomendations on material is in order.