51 Brazil
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djproject
- Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2010 3:41 pm
- Location: Framingham, MA
- Contact:
Re: 51 Brazil
I know I'm the umpteenth person to say this but: the LCA version has atrocious editing.
Putting aside the obvious that someone else who wasn't involved in the production from the start was working on making it into something that it wasn't intended to be, the whole thing is a mess. Cutaways are relied on way too much and I don't think it was just to mask story edits. The whole thing moves at a more frenzy pace it seems but not in a way that makes sense (considering you are dealing with a film that's supposed to be a "dysfunctional dystopia", that makes it even more confusing). Also the use and non-use of music is quite arbitrary and often works against the scene. A good example of that one is when Sam is arguing with his mother while Dr. Jaffe does his template preparation: the original version had music that emphasizes more his mother's romantic fantasies; the LCA has no music and makes it way more detached - dare I say, clinical - and lifeless ... which is odd because she's at an opulent, Xanadu-like locale.
All in all, if someone wanted to make their film, start over from page one of a script and take it from there. It would have saved everyone the trouble later =]
Putting aside the obvious that someone else who wasn't involved in the production from the start was working on making it into something that it wasn't intended to be, the whole thing is a mess. Cutaways are relied on way too much and I don't think it was just to mask story edits. The whole thing moves at a more frenzy pace it seems but not in a way that makes sense (considering you are dealing with a film that's supposed to be a "dysfunctional dystopia", that makes it even more confusing). Also the use and non-use of music is quite arbitrary and often works against the scene. A good example of that one is when Sam is arguing with his mother while Dr. Jaffe does his template preparation: the original version had music that emphasizes more his mother's romantic fantasies; the LCA has no music and makes it way more detached - dare I say, clinical - and lifeless ... which is odd because she's at an opulent, Xanadu-like locale.
All in all, if someone wanted to make their film, start over from page one of a script and take it from there. It would have saved everyone the trouble later =]
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Kirkinson
- Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2004 5:34 am
- Location: Portland, OR
Re: 51 Brazil
The arbitrariness of the LCA cut's music spotting might have something to do with the fact that one of the changes Sid Scheinberg wanted to make was replacing most or all of Michael Kamen's score with pop music (just as he had Jerry Goldsmith's score for Legend replaced with a new one by Tangerine Dream earlier the same year). Strangely music-less portions of the film could be indications of where new music was planned. Of course it's also important to remember that the Love Conquers All version was never really 100% finished, so it's possible some of the more awkward edits might have been cleaned up. Not that the film ever would have made a lick of sense in that cut, of course.
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djproject
- Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2010 3:41 pm
- Location: Framingham, MA
- Contact:
Re: 51 Brazil
That does explain the "that film wouldn't be released in 1985" stance.Kirkinson wrote:The arbitrariness of the LCA cut's music spotting might have something to do with the fact that one of the changes Sid Scheinberg wanted to make was replacing most or all of Michael Kamen's score with pop music (just as he had Jerry Goldsmith's score for Legend replaced with a new one by Tangerine Dream earlier the same year). Strangely music-less portions of the film could be indications of where new music was planned. Of course it's also important to remember that the Love Conquers All version was never really 100% finished, so it's possible some of the more awkward edits might have been cleaned up. Not that the film ever would have made a lick of sense in that cut, of course.
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Orlac
- Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2009 4:29 am
Re: 51 Brazil
Interesting that Kamen was going to be booted from Brazil, and the same year he was eomployed by Tristar to partly re-score Lifeforce.
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flyonthewall2983
- Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2005 3:31 pm
- Location: Indiana
- Contact:
Re: 51 Brazil
Especially interesting considering Paramount insisted on using him for The Dead Zone because Howard Shore wasn't that well-proven beyond his previous work with Cronenberg. It turned out well enough because it's one of Kamen's best.
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Mr Sausage
- Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 9:02 pm
- Location: Canada
Brazil (Terry Gilliam, 1985)
DISCUSSION ENDS MONDAY, June 12th
Members have a two week period in which to discuss the film before it's moved to its dedicated thread in The Criterion Collection subforum. Please read the Rules and Procedures.
This thread is not spoiler free. This is a discussion thread; you should expect plot points of the individual films under discussion to be discussed openly. See: spoiler rules.
DISCUSSION QUESTIONS
I encourage members to submit questions, either those designed to elicit discussion and point out interesting things to keep an eye on, or just something you want answered. This will be extremely helpful in getting discussion started. Starting is always the hardest part, all the more so if it's unguided. Questions can be submitted to me via PM.
Members have a two week period in which to discuss the film before it's moved to its dedicated thread in The Criterion Collection subforum. Please read the Rules and Procedures.
This thread is not spoiler free. This is a discussion thread; you should expect plot points of the individual films under discussion to be discussed openly. See: spoiler rules.
DISCUSSION QUESTIONS
I encourage members to submit questions, either those designed to elicit discussion and point out interesting things to keep an eye on, or just something you want answered. This will be extremely helpful in getting discussion started. Starting is always the hardest part, all the more so if it's unguided. Questions can be submitted to me via PM.
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Mr Sausage
- Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 9:02 pm
- Location: Canada
Re: Brazil (Terry Gilliam, 1985)
The movie this most reminds me of is, believe it or not, Burton's Batman. Two futuristic worlds that seem paradoxically stuck in the past (seemingly the 1940s). Tho' while Burton's movie is about two grotesques battling for the soul of a corrupt city, Gilliam's is more about the failure of the world to live up to the dream of good battling evil. There is no villain the monstrous dream-samurai can stand in for (the evil is hopelessly abstracted into a faceless system), so there is no way for Sam Lowry to be a hero. Even Tuttle is only a gadfly in the system.
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beamish14
- Joined: Fri May 18, 2018 3:07 pm
Re: Brazil (Terry Gilliam, 1985)
Tim Burton absolutely told Batman production designer Anton Furst to analyze this film.
I was watching Walter Hill’s Wild Bill and thinking of how Gilliam had initially settled on Ellen Barkin playing Jill Layton and came to immensely regret casting Griest as a result of her weak performance and personality clashes. Barkin exudes personality and life in her roles in a way that I have never seen Griest deliver. Her work in Blake Edwards’ Switch, where she plays a body-swapped man, is simply one of my favorite performances ever.
I was watching Walter Hill’s Wild Bill and thinking of how Gilliam had initially settled on Ellen Barkin playing Jill Layton and came to immensely regret casting Griest as a result of her weak performance and personality clashes. Barkin exudes personality and life in her roles in a way that I have never seen Griest deliver. Her work in Blake Edwards’ Switch, where she plays a body-swapped man, is simply one of my favorite performances ever.