65 Rushmore

Discuss DVDs and Blu-rays released by Criterion and the films on them. If it's got a spine number, it's in here. Threads may contain spoilers.
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Der Spieler
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Re: I know I'm a doctor, but what are you?

#76 Post by Der Spieler » Wed Nov 09, 2011 12:15 pm

triodelover wrote:FWIW, I've received a couple of PMs from Svet Atanasov. The use of his title at Blu-ray.com was not of his doing. Some may remember that at DVD Talk, he was simply Svet Atanasov. When he joined Blu-ray.com, the site owners required him to use his title to confer an air of legitimacy to a site in its infancy. He tried to change their minds to no avail. You can choose to believe this or not. For my part the tenor of his communication makes it easy to accept him at his word.
Fair enough.

That doesn't really change anything though.

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Re: I know I'm a doctor, but what are you?

#77 Post by mfunk9786 » Wed Nov 09, 2011 12:26 pm

Spelling Tenenbaums correctly would just be paying it too much respect

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Re: I know I'm a doctor, but what are you?

#78 Post by triodelover » Wed Nov 09, 2011 12:41 pm

mfunk9786 wrote:Spelling Tenenbaums correctly would just be paying it too much respect
Sorry, fixed. I take pains to get things right. I missed that one.

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Re: I know I'm a doctor, but what are you?

#79 Post by mfunk9786 » Wed Nov 09, 2011 12:47 pm

I really don't take your dislike of Rushmore personally, but I think you may have gone into it with the wrong attitude. ;)

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Re: I know I'm a doctor, but what are you?

#80 Post by LQ » Wed Nov 09, 2011 12:52 pm

I'm just shocked to learn that someone is actually immune to Fischer's snide little "O.R. they?", which very well might be my favorite retort in all of movie-dom.

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Re: I know I'm a doctor, but what are you?

#81 Post by triodelover » Wed Nov 09, 2011 1:06 pm

LQ wrote:I'm just shocked to learn that someone is actually immune to Fischer's snide little "O.R. they?", which very well might be my favorite retort in all of movie-dom.
Sorry, LQ, nothing beats Osgood's "Nobody's perfect" at the end of Some Like It Hot.
mfunk9786 wrote:I really don't take your dislike of Rushmore personally, but I think you may have gone into it with the wrong attitude. ;)
Certainly possible, although I truly wanted to like the film. I thought it might have some redeemable qualities. I mean it wasn't another one-dimensional Clint Eastwood film.

But early on it started to feel like TRT again (although to the film's credit, Gwyneth Paltrow was blessedly absent). And the restaurant scene was embarrassingly awful in so many ways.

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Re: I know I'm a doctor, but what are you?

#82 Post by mfunk9786 » Wed Nov 09, 2011 1:25 pm

That's both the most gut-wrenchingly honest and hilarious scene in the film.

Answer me honestly: Are you Rex Reed?

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Re: I know I'm a doctor, but what are you?

#83 Post by triodelover » Wed Nov 09, 2011 1:30 pm

mfunk9786 wrote:Answer me honestly: Are you Rex Reed?
No. Answer me honestly. Can you accept different opinions without condescension?

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Re: I know I'm a doctor, but what are you?

#84 Post by mfunk9786 » Wed Nov 09, 2011 1:36 pm

I was just kidding around, let's all stay calm here

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Re: I know I'm a doctor, but what are you?

#85 Post by matrixschmatrix » Wed Nov 09, 2011 1:44 pm

I do enjoy that this turned back around to a discussion of Rushmore. I must say that every time I rewatch the movie I spend the first half hour or so thinking that maybe I don't like it as much as I remember- Max is such an irritating little snot- and every single time, the movie wins me over by the end, without ever changing his underlying character. That restaurant scene really is amazing- Max is put into a situation that genuinely requires the adult composure he's been affecting all along, and for the first time you see him as a child, totally unable to control himself. The fact that he makes what is maybe the wittiest remark in the movie while he's in the middle of humiliating himself is absolutely beautiful.

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Re: I know I'm a doctor, but what are you?

#86 Post by mfunk9786 » Wed Nov 09, 2011 2:01 pm

It really is. And the film smartly shows that children can have inner turmoil and pain and life histories that can affect the way they act just like adults - the look that Herman gives Max when he realizes that Max's father is a barber is one of my favorite moments of acting of all time. It is warm, and understanding, and speaks volumes into both characters' unusual bond. I'm tearing up just thinking about it.

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Re: I know I'm a doctor, but what are you?

#87 Post by triodelover » Wed Nov 09, 2011 2:02 pm

mfunk9786 wrote:I was just kidding around, let's all stay calm here
I am calm. It's funny that after three successive snide jabs at my opinion, you pull the Empty Chair gambit. You're very good at lobbing rhetorical Molotov cocktails and then deflecting any response with phrases like "I'm not taking it personally" or "I was just kidding". Do it enough and it begins to sound like the little boy who cried "wolf". You're a bright guy and better than that.

So to diffuse the differences over Rushmore here's a challenge. Why don't you make a list of films that received critical or popular acclaim that you detested? I'm pretty sure there will be a film or two on the list that I probably liked a lot. Then we'll talk some more. :-"
matrixschmatrix wrote:I do enjoy that this turned back around to a discussion of Rushmore. I must say that every time I rewatch the movie I spend the first half hour or so thinking that maybe I don't like it as much as I remember- Max is such an irritating little snot
Couldn't have said it better myself.
matrixschmatrix wrote:- and every single time, the movie wins me over by the end, without ever changing his underlying character. That restaurant scene really is amazing- Max is put into a situation that genuinely requires the adult composure he's been affecting all along, and for the first time you see him as a child, totally unable to control himself. The fact that he makes what is maybe the wittiest remark in the movie while he's in the middle of humiliating himself is absolutely beautiful.
Two different sets of eyes; two different views. Enlighten me - what was the witty remark? I got the scene's purpose but the wit anywhere in the film escapes me.

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Re: I know I'm a doctor, but what are you?

#88 Post by mfunk9786 » Wed Nov 09, 2011 2:03 pm

LQ wrote:I'm just shocked to learn that someone is actually immune to Fischer's snide little "O.R. they?", which very well might be my favorite retort in all of movie-dom.

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Re: I know I'm a doctor, but what are you?

#89 Post by swo17 » Wed Nov 09, 2011 2:06 pm

Or, more completely:

Max: I like your nurse's uniform, guy.
Peter: These are O.R. scrubs.
Max: O, R they?

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Re: I know I'm a doctor, but what are you?

#90 Post by triodelover » Wed Nov 09, 2011 2:09 pm

mfunk9786 wrote:
LQ wrote:I'm just shocked to learn that someone is actually immune to Fischer's snide little "O.R. they?", which very well might be my favorite retort in all of movie-dom.
Are we talking about this exchange?
Max Fischer: I like your nurse's uniform, guy.
Dr. Peter Flynn: These are O.R. scrubs.
Max Fischer: O, R they?
Really? That's what passes for wit in your world? No wonder I despair of the future. Jesus. (Just kiddin', son - see, I can play, too.)

Addendum: OK, a little over the top, I admit, and I was trying to return a jab at mfunk. But seriously, it's not even a good pun.

Addendum to the addendum: A little more fuel for the fire, because I need to go get a workout in and couldn't resist. From Dinner at Eight:
Kitty: I was reading a book the other day.
Carlotta: Reading a book?
Kitty: Yes. It's all about civilization or something. A nutty kind of a book. Do you know that the guy says that machinery is going to take the place of every profession?
Carlotta: Oh, my dear, that's something you need never worry about.
That's wit.

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Re: I know I'm a doctor, but what are you?

#91 Post by matrixschmatrix » Wed Nov 09, 2011 2:54 pm

Haha, you're starting to sound like a tweed-jacketed professor in a Rodney Dangerfield movie, man. The wittiness of the remark in Rushmore is contextual- it's not a screwball movie, and the people in it largely aren't allowed to talk in jokes, so the wordplay of it comes off as though it is actually from the character saying it, not from a script doctor. Moreover, it's really sold by Max's complete delight with himself, and everyone else at the table's continued looks of distaste.

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Re: I know I'm a doctor, but what are you?

#92 Post by LQ » Wed Nov 09, 2011 2:57 pm

matrixschmatrix wrote:Moreover, it's really sold by Max's complete delight with himself, and everyone else at the table's continued looks of distaste.
And Bill Murray's muffled snork.

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Re: I know I'm a doctor, but what are you?

#93 Post by mfunk9786 » Wed Nov 09, 2011 3:00 pm

matrixschmatrix wrote:Haha, you're starting to sound like a tweed-jacketed professor in a Rodney Dangerfield movie, man.
I love you.

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Re: I know I'm a doctor, but what are you?

#94 Post by Brian C » Wed Nov 09, 2011 3:24 pm

triodelover wrote:Really? That's what passes for wit in your world? No wonder I despair of the future. Jesus. (Just kiddin', son - see, I can play, too.)

Addendum: OK, a little over the top, I admit, and I was trying to return a jab at mfunk.
Except that you actually aimed it at LQ, far as I can tell. Or maybe matrixschmatrix.

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Re: I know I'm a doctor, but what are you?

#95 Post by Michael Kerpan » Wed Nov 09, 2011 3:56 pm

Brian C wrote:[Except that you actually aimed it at LQ, far as I can tell. Or maybe matrixschmatrix.
I'm starting to get a bit dizzy.

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Re: I know I'm a doctor, but what are you?

#96 Post by tarpilot » Wed Nov 09, 2011 4:01 pm

That's just 'cuz you can't keep up with the whippersnapper wit

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Re: I know I'm a doctor, but what are you?

#97 Post by triodelover » Wed Nov 09, 2011 4:07 pm

matrixschmatrix wrote:Haha, you're starting to sound like a tweed-jacketed professor in a Rodney Dangerfield movie, man.
Whatever, if that's how I'm seen that's how I'm seen. We're talking about perception anyway, so I can't argue with it particularly since I've never seen a Rodney Dangerfield film.

Who knows? The characterization might be apt. Guess I'll have to buy a tweed jacket. Does it have to have the suede patches on the elbow? And is it obligatory that there be burn marks on the lapels from the ashes of my pipe? Does a good single malt come with the gig?
matrixschmatrix wrote:The wittiness of the remark in Rushmore is contextual- it's not a screwball movie, and the people in it largely aren't allowed to talk in jokes, so the wordplay of it comes off as though it is actually from the character saying it, not from a script doctor. Moreover, it's really sold by Max's complete delight with himself, and everyone else at the table's continued looks of distaste.
So you think the exchange between Jean Harlow and Marie Dressler was a joke? And the exchange from Rushmore wasn't? I think I've found the problem.

To me, the wordplay came off exactly like it was from a script doctor - someone who had aced freshman English comp and though that meant he could write. As far as I'm concerned, the movie jumped the shark in the restaurant scene and Max's "wordplay" doesn't even rise to the level of "So's your mother". It seemed puerile, like so much of the film's dialogue.
Brian C wrote:Except that you actually aimed it at LQ, far as I can tell. Or maybe matrixschmatrix.
Well, hard to take good aim in a pile on. The last thing I'd want to do is offend someone whose avatar is one of my favorite all-time sexy actresses. Besides, it gave you the opportunity to take your daily pot shot at me, so there's that.

Look, I'm really not trying to offend anybody but it's getting harder to do while trying to defend my POV. Maybe we can agree that I'm way past the sell-by date for this film at this time and that colors my perception in no small degree. I certainly don't wish to make permanent enemies here over the film. I've tried hard to own my opinion as just mine and not disparage those who like and admire Anderson's work. Now I seem to be crossing that line ( or being pushed across it) and I don't like it. But to be called Rex Reed? Really, that's too much. [-X :wink:

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Re: 65 Rushmore

#98 Post by colinr0380 » Wed Nov 09, 2011 4:09 pm

This is way off topic of Rushmore but I have to recommend the BBFC Annual Reports for their highly amusing, slightly sarcastic round ups of the year. I particularly remember the one year they mention that they had received one complaint about PG classification of the film Cider With Rosie since it featured "too much sex and drinking!"

Here's a particularly amusing passage from the 2010 report (note this link is to a PDF file):
A campaign run by a couple of online forums led to the BBFC receiving 12 pleas for the film Inferno, by cult director Dario Argento, not to be cut on the grounds of illegal animal cruelty. When the BBFC determined that the scene in question did not breach the legal tests for animal cruelty and passed it uncut, we received 11 emails thanking us for our decision.

The issue of animal cruelty was also raised in connection with a sheep chasing scene in the film Scouting for Boys (‘15’). One rural viewer believed the film would encourage teenagers from towns to come to the country and copy this behaviour. While understanding this concern, we did not think imitation was a serious risk in this case.

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Re: I know I'm a doctor, but what are you?

#99 Post by matrixschmatrix » Wed Nov 09, 2011 4:26 pm

triodelover wrote:To me, the wordplay came off exactly like it was from a script doctor - someone who had aced freshman English comp and though that meant he could write. As far as I'm concerned, the movie jumped the shark in the restaurant scene and Max's "wordplay" doesn't even rise to the level of "So's your mother". It seemed puerile, like so much of the film's dialogue.
Haha, it's supposed to be puerile, it's literally said by a self-satisfied child. It's delightful both because it's a wonderfully accurate character moment- his self-satisfaction is terribly familiar- and because, in spite of that, it actually is a pretty good line
(thus Murray's amusement.) Schwartzman's character is absolutely someone who is convinced of his own brilliance due to the equivalent of acing English- not in actual grades, but in the way adults react to him- and as someone who definitely was That Kid in school sometimes the movie is both funny and painful in its dissection of him.

It's not written to be a well-written line in the sense of a screwball, where speak in a way that is designed to delight the audience, not necessarily reflect how they would speak in real life. I'm not knocking screwball by any means, but it's not an accurate comparison. I honestly can see where Rushmore wouldn't work for some people- as I say, it always almost doesn't work for me- but in many ways it's as harrowing and cruelly accurate a portrait of the outsider as a young man as the 400 Blows is. Only, it's funny, too.
Last edited by matrixschmatrix on Wed Nov 09, 2011 4:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: I know I'm a doctor, but what are you?

#100 Post by triodelover » Wed Nov 09, 2011 4:31 pm

matrixschmatrix wrote:
triodelover wrote:To me, the wordplay came off exactly like it was from a script doctor - someone who had aced freshman English comp and though that meant he could write. As far as I'm concerned, the movie jumped the shark in the restaurant scene and Max's "wordplay" doesn't even rise to the level of "So's your mother". It seemed puerile, like so much of the film's dialogue.
Haha, it's supposed to be puerile, it's literally said by a self-satisfied child
I could see that, but most of the dialogue, too? I never could stand the Three Stooges for the same reason.

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