1213 To Die For

[beamish14]

In the French supplements of "Bully" by Larry Clark they made a connection with this movie; and after having rewatched it (the girl, young Casey Affleck and above all a young Joacquim Phoenix mesmerized for life by the weather), I think they are right- there is a kind of a two layers in this movie with Kidman doing her stuff and Gus Van Sant filming teenagers.

Funny, I just saw Bully a few nights ago. Obviously, Van Sant and Clark have collaborated, and Van Sant’s films (and TV commercials, in the case of his Volvo advertisement from 1996), do sometimes delve into adolescent ennui and sexuality in similar ways. Bully, despite its incredibly grim subject matter, is maybe Clark’s funniest film, and To Die For is surely Van Sant’s

[Rupert Pupkin]

In the French supplements of "Bully" by Larry Clark they made a connection with this movie; and after having rewatched it (the girl, young Casey Affleck and above all a young Joacquim Phoenix mesmerized for life by the weather), I think they are right- there is a kind of a two layers in this movie with Kidman doing her stuff and Gus Van Sant filming teenagers.

Funny, I just saw Bully a few nights ago. Obviously, Van Sant and Clark have collaborated, and Van Sant’s films (and TV commercials, in the case of his Volvo advertisement from 1996), do sometimes delve into adolescent ennui and sexuality in similar ways. Bully, despite its incredibly grim subject matter, is maybe Clark’s funniest film, and To Die For is surely Van Sant’s

mmh perhaps rather "Wassup Rockers"; even if they loose a friend during their "journey" there are some very funny scenes. It has been compared has a kind of "The Warriors" (Walter Hill) revisited. I did not think of that until then.

[beamish14]

In the French supplements of "Bully" by Larry Clark they made a connection with this movie; and after having rewatched it (the girl, young Casey Affleck and above all a young Joacquim Phoenix mesmerized for life by the weather), I think they are right- there is a kind of a two layers in this movie with Kidman doing her stuff and Gus Van Sant filming teenagers.

Funny, I just saw Bully a few nights ago. Obviously, Van Sant and Clark have collaborated, and Van Sant’s films (and TV commercials, in the case of his Volvo advertisement from 1996), do sometimes delve into adolescent ennui and sexuality in similar ways. Bully, despite its incredibly grim subject matter, is maybe Clark’s funniest film, and To Die For is surely Van Sant’s

mmh perhaps rather "Wassup Rockers"; even if they loose a friend during their "journey" there are some very funny scenes. It has been compared has a kind of "The Warriors" (Walter Hill) revisited. I did not think of that until then.

Oh, definitely. There are some absolutely hilarious scenes in Wassup. As someone who grew up in Los Angeles, it does an exemplary job of taking the piss on the city’s most ridiculous facets. I love the Clint Eastwood stand-in/parody

[cdnchris]

Is the commentary on this a port from a previous release?

The notes for the track indicate it was recorded in 2023. I'm not sure if it was recorded by Criterion, but its editing is credited to Kate Elmore and Michael W. Wiese.

[cdnchris]

This came out when I was in high school and after learning about it I was intrigued by the premise but then moreso that Buck Henry had wrote/adapted the screenplay, Henry being one of the few Hollywood writers I was familiar with at the time (along with has acting roles). And then to find out Gus Van Sant was directing it made it more intriguing. Initially watching it back then I was a bit disappointed but it's grown on me far more now. Maybe it's looking at it as a product of its time it's easier for me now than it was as a teen to see the satirical edge of the film about celebrity and true crime obsession, even if it's still not all that original, even for the time, but it seems more on point at least. Laughed a lot more this time around than I did then.

Forgot how good everyone is in this, though. Kidman I remember being great and she really does go all out. But I really forgot how good Phoenix, Affleck and Folland are as the kids. I think I had been initially dismissive of Phoenix at the time if only because I wrongly was looking at him in his brother's shadow, but his confession scene is heartbreaking. Everyone else, from Dillon to Kurtwood Smith, Dan Hedaya, Wayne Knight, Maria Tucci and so on, are all pitch perfect, too.

Some fun things I learned from the commentary:

• Buck Henry had wanted to work with Van Sant since seeing Drugstore Cowboy and he randomly chose this as the project. It doesn't sound like it was anything sitting in the wings the the director was brought in on, but a whole new project just to do with the director. Henry had become obsessed with the idea of "true crime" as a form of entertainment and adjusted the novel to reflect that, which doesn't have anything along those lines in it.
• Mike Nichols (friends with Henry, of course) found out about the project and actually tried to get Van Sant fired so he could take over. Van Sant only found out about this much, much later and was caught off guard by it.
• The script was written in a modular fashion by design, Henry allowing the film to be arranged in any fashion. Unfortunately producer Laura Ziskin was married to the structure Henry had formed in his script and set the rule it couldn't be altered. While it made sense on page, they couldn't get the edit to work and after a lot of bad test screenings Ziskin relented and we get the form we do now. Funny enough, Henry apparently hated how the film ended up being arranged.
• Matt Damon tried out for the role of Jimmy. Everyone found him "too good looking," which ends up being a bit of a slight towards Phoenix, but it probably worked out for the best. Van Sant liked Damon, though (and they would of course work together later), and it was Damon who suggested Casey Affleck for the role of Russell. Ben visited the set, but was never considered for a role in the film.
• Meg Ryan was initially approached for the lead but she was concerned the role would hurt her image. Kidman didn't give a crap about that and basically pulled her own Suzanne Stone act to get the role.
• It sounds like George Segal's cameo was a surprise to most. It's unclear how he came to be involved, but since he was friends with Henry it was probably through that. Cronenberg's cameo is never explained, but since it was filmed in Toronto I have to assume Van Sant just got in touch with him.
• Buck Henry did not like Illeana Douglas' performance, to the point where he made his own cut of the film excising her. Everyone else, even the producer (who had been falling over for Henry by this point), were taken aback by this and never understood what his issue was, though have a few ideas. He made the cut on VHS using two VCR's at home, and they say his cut was unwatchable, made worse by the janky manner in which it was made.

[hearthesilence]

Buck Henry did not like Illeana Douglas' performance, to the point where he made his own cut of the film excising her. Everyone else, even the producer (who had been falling over for Henry by this point), were taken aback by this and never understood what his issue was, though have a few ideas. He made the cut on VHS using two VCR's at home, and they say his cut was unwatchable, made worse by the janky manner in which it was made.

I was actually referring to this in my post above - Henry was apparently very brutal in his rejected commentary. I thought I remembered this wrong because when Henry died some years later, Douglas wrote some very nice things about him as a person and as someone whose work she admired. Wonder if she knew?

[beamish14]

Henry was a brilliant screenwriter and character actor, but First Family demonstrates that he had zero instincts as a director. It’s appalling on every conceivable level, including its visual effects

[FrauBlucher]

DVDBeaver on the UHD

[Finch]

What the fuck is "an atmospheric bitrate"? Quoting Gary's review.

[Matt]

I’ve always been mystified by his use of “supportive bitrate” but I think that probably has some utility as an indication of quality. “Atmospheric” though? Bless his heart

[nicolas]

I’ve always been mystified by his use of “supportive bitrate” but I think that probably has some utility as an indication of quality. “Atmospheric” though? Bless his heart

He used “stratospheric” for Phase IV’s UHD

[Randall Maysin Again]

Hmm. According to Gary Tooze's screencaps on his DVDBeaver review, the Criterion bluray seems to have a rather different color scheme than the 4K UHD. How...pe-CU-liar! Is this normal?

[therewillbeblus]

I’ve always been mystified by his use of “supportive bitrate” but I think that probably has some utility as an indication of quality. “Atmospheric” though? Bless his heart

He used “stratospheric” for Phase IV’s UHD

I'd Die For Atmostratospheric

[nicolas]

I’ve always been mystified by his use of “supportive bitrate” but I think that probably has some utility as an indication of quality. “Atmospheric” though? Bless his heart

He used “stratospheric” for Phase IV’s UHD

I'd Die For Atmostratospheric

He reserved that for the best label in the world’s upcoming masterpieces of 4K UHDs, of which we should be very grateful of according to the KLI.

[pistolwink]

I’ve always been mystified by his use of “supportive bitrate” but I think that probably has some utility as an indication of quality. “Atmospheric” though? Bless his heart

This sort of thing reminds me a lot of audiophile jargon, much of which is cover for the fact that the writer doesn't have any idea what s/he's talking about.

[Matt]

Oh, I think I understand now. It’s like the old Sears appliance distinctions: good, better, best. “Supportive” means good or adequate, “atmospheric” means higher as in above ground or above the base standard, “stratospheric” means even higher or well beyond expectations. Be on the lookout for “ionospheric” next, I guess.