885 The Lodger: A Story of the London Fog

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Feego
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Re: 885 The Lodger: A Story of the London Fog

#51 Post by Feego » Fri Mar 17, 2017 7:42 pm

domino harvey wrote:I can't remember, was this one of the discs that was messed up in MGM's cookbook-style Hitchcock box?
I only bought the single disc of The Lodger, so I wouldn't know how it was affected by the box set packaging. I've never encountered any problems with mine.

Rupert Pupkin
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Re: 885 The Lodger: A Story of the London Fog

#52 Post by Rupert Pupkin » Sat Mar 18, 2017 2:01 am

could someone please tell me if I saw it with the same soundtrack than the upcoming Criterion ?
it was the restored version and started with a soundtrack which has a musical theme which I like it very much (although it annoyed me a little bit because it was too reminiscent of Bernard Hermann's score for North By Northwest (the opening theme) which is one of my favorite score ever)

but the "morning" scene came and it was suddenly a pop song, kind of French touch (let say, like AIR when they were doing some great stuff especially at the time of Sofia Coppola's Virgin Suicide). While I think that this fresh morning corn flakes pop song could work with the rest of the soundtrack, and it's not a purist point of view (no pop song in a silence movie). Why not the Beatles "Good Morning Good Morning" (which was actually a radio spot/ad which John Lennon borrowed ?)
I was a bit suprised because so far, the soundtrack tried to put nicely a kind of Bernard Hermann's atmosphere...

I remember by the way (because of the typos and some shots) thinking that The Lodger has certainly been a huge influence for Guy Maddin (when will they release on blu-ray my favorite one - "Et Les Lâches s'agenouilles" ("Cowards Bend the Knee) ?

Will the new upcoming Criterion has this soundtrack ?


I would have liked 2 or 3 soundtracks like Criterion did for Pandora's box. I think that such bonus are very exciting because an alternate soundtracks often means a new experience and rediscovering of a silent movie (even if it can be sometimes disconcerting...) you always have your favorite "soundtrack"...

I am the only one who preferred the original "The Lodger" over the 1944 version. And why Criterion couldn't put the 2 version on this release ? they don't have the rights for the 1944 version ?

Orlac
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Re: 885 The Lodger: A Story of the London Fog

#53 Post by Orlac » Sat Mar 18, 2017 2:47 am

The 1944 version is already out on Blu-ray.

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dustybooks
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Re: 885 The Lodger: A Story of the London Fog

#54 Post by dustybooks » Sat Mar 18, 2017 10:22 am

domino harvey wrote:I can't remember, was this one of the discs that was messed up in MGM's cookbook-style Hitchcock box?
Mine is OK, but I bought the box when it was announced that it was being deleted so it may just be a later pressing.

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willoneill
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Re: 885 The Lodger: A Story of the London Fog

#55 Post by willoneill » Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:17 pm

domino harvey wrote:I can't remember, was this one of the discs that was messed up in MGM's cookbook-style Hitchcock box?
I know for some people this disc wouldn't load properly. For me, it made the DVD player abnormally loud, almost as if the disc was unbalanced or something. I still have this set boxed away somewhere.

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Black Hat
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Re: 885 The Lodger: A Story of the London Fog

#56 Post by Black Hat » Tue Mar 28, 2017 7:58 pm

I really admire the balls it must have took the BFI to score it this way. If more of this was done I think it'll help more people become interested in silent films. Imagine if you had say Björk scoring Joan of Arc, Lady Gaga doing the Blue Angel or Kanye doing 5 hours of Mabuse? I think the results would be absolutely bonkers.
MichaelB wrote:The Nitin Sawhney score is actually pretty good, apart from the songs. But that means they stick out even more.
I'd seen the movie for the first time in a theater with live musical accompaniment and then immediately after on youtube. I thought the score was good too, but when the first song came on it was so jarring, felt so out of place I thought the uploader was trying to be funny and off to Google I went seeking an explanation.

It's a beautiful song — Nitin Sawhney's* been making great music for a long time so I was shocked, but happily, when I found out he was behind this but whoever said it has the feel of a youtube video isn't wrong. Over time however, it grew on me and I've become a big fan of it.

*I first heard Nitin Sawhney on the first edition of those wonderful Hôtel Costes compilations. If there was ever a cooler looking cd with better packaging than Hôtel Costes I'd love to see it, but in any case that was the only reason I bought that record. Thankfully it's content matched its cover and from there went on to discover Sawhney's incredible music which the best way to describe it is to say if you like thoughtful sounds then you'd like this. Beyond Skin, Fabriclive 15, Philtre, London Undersound are all fabulous listens well worth checking out.

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Re: 885 The Lodger: A Story of the London Fog

#57 Post by FrauBlucher » Thu May 25, 2017 10:10 pm


Rupert Pupkin
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Re: 885 The Lodger: A Story of the London Fog

#58 Post by Rupert Pupkin » Thu May 25, 2017 11:38 pm

Black Hat wrote:I really admire the balls it must have took the BFI to score it this way. If more of this was done I think it'll help more people become interested in silent films. Imagine if you had say Björk scoring Joan of Arc, Lady Gaga doing the Blue Angel or Kanye doing 5 hours of Mabuse? I think the results would be absolutely bonkers.
MichaelB wrote:The Nitin Sawhney score is actually pretty good, apart from the songs. But that means they stick out even more.
I'd seen the movie for the first time in a theater with live musical accompaniment and then immediately after on youtube. I thought the score was good too, but when the first song came on it was so jarring, felt so out of place I thought the uploader was trying to be funny and off to Google I went seeking an explanation.

It's a beautiful song — Nitin Sawhney's* been making great music for a long time so I was shocked, but happily, when I found out he was behind this but whoever said it has the feel of a youtube video isn't wrong. Over time however, it grew on me and I've become a big fan of it.

*I first heard Nitin Sawhney on the first edition of those wonderful Hôtel Costes compilations. If there was ever a cooler looking cd with better packaging than Hôtel Costes I'd love to see it, but in any case that was the only reason I bought that record. Thankfully it's content matched its cover and from there went on to discover Sawhney's incredible music which the best way to describe it is to say if you like thoughtful sounds then you'd like this. Beyond Skin, Fabriclive 15, Philtre, London Undersound are all fabulous listens well worth checking out.
I think I wrote a message about Nitin Swaney score in the previous page of this thread. The opening score was a bit like an Hermannesque tribute (it reminds me kind of B.Hermann main them of "North By Northwest". I was really surprised by the breakfast 'pop song', but I really enjoyed the whole scene, and I did think that it works it fits very well with the movie.
This 'pop song' is used twice, and the soundtrack just really flows. It doesn't sound "out of place" at all with the rest of the soundtrack and this kind of approach is more subtle and has nothing to do IMHO with some totally different approach such as the infamous soundtrack of "Metropolis". This "pop song" during the breakfast/morning scene, works as sweet as sugar and cookies...
After all, this "pop song" is now connected for me to these scenes of "The Lodger". In the same way than the "Always" in the superb movie "Lonesome" (ok, that's different here since the song was always there and "Lonesome" was not a silent movie).

I've pre-ordered the Criterion knowing that N.Swaney score won't be on this blu-ray. Is there a way to listen to the new score by Neil Brand, performed by the Orchestra of Saint Paul’s ? (I mean- has a part of this new score been already performed or pressed on CD ?)- I guess that it will be a much more classic soundtrack than Atom Heart Mother...
I'm sad that Criterion didn't include both soundtracks on their blu-ray (perhaps a (c) problems ? or they didn't like at all the B.Swaney score ? or the new Neil Brand score was too expensive to afford both soundtracks ?)
I mean, for silent movie, 2 or more soundtracks are a great experience to see how music can influence the vibe and atmosphere of a movie (I remember that Criterion used to put different soundtracks for silent movies - for instance on "Pandora's Box".)
I've only discovered A.Hitchcock's recently "The Lodger" with N.Swaney score- and really love this movie. I don't know how much the score contributed to this, but the connection between a score and a movie is certainly strong, to the point that I'm reluctant to discover the "The Lodger" with the new soundtrack now.
Perhaps I will buy the BR UK...
I wouldn't imagine "North By Northwest" with another soundtrack; but that's a bit different (well I'm not so sure) with some "silent" movies... well, is there a soundtrack for a silent movie you really hated ? for instance there's 2 soundtrack for the "The Phantom Carriage"...

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Re: 885 The Lodger: A Story of the London Fog

#59 Post by Rupert Pupkin » Fri May 26, 2017 12:07 am

by the way, and I know that this is difficult to be sure because color profile can change from one site to another, but apparently the blue tint is attenuated on the Criterion transfer vs the Blu-Ray UK (but DVDbeaver doesn't compare the Criterion bu-ray with the Blu-Ray UK)- for the Blu-Ray UK captures I had to check blu-ray.com


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Re: Forthcoming: The Lodger

#61 Post by miles197 » Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:11 am

HitchcockLang wrote:I agree that Hitchcock's silents are not among the greatest silent films, but they have a special place in my heart as it was an excursion to watch everything Hitch ever directed that got me so interested in silent film to begin with. I'm a huge fan of silent film in general now.

I would love to see Criterion release The Pleasure Garden as it has never received any kind of legitimate region 1 release (heck, it never shows up on the most prominent illegitimate releases of Hitch's early British films either). Hard to believe no one has ever snagged it and released it in the States. Seems like it would be pretty easy to market a film with "Alfred Hitchcock's first film available on DVD/blu-ray for the first time" emblazoned across the front. I also don't think the film is half bad, personally.
You've seen every single Hitchcock film? Or just every silent Hitchcock film? I'm a huge fan of his work from what I've seen (only a few from the 50s-60s) and I'm definitely going to be picking up this Criterion release. Out of curiosity, could you recommend your favorite silent Hitchcock film, and your favorite sound Hitchcock film?

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Re: 885 The Lodger: A Story of the London Fog

#62 Post by mfunk9786 » Tue Jun 13, 2017 2:33 pm

Might be a good idea to take a look at our Alfred Hitchcock Auteur List

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Re: 885 The Lodger: A Story of the London Fog

#63 Post by FrauBlucher » Tue Jul 18, 2017 6:22 am

Has anyone watched the blu yet? The gentlemen on the Nitrateville site are complaining about Criterion transferring in 1080P instead of 1080i. I know they are a bit geeky about this stuff, but I haven't heard any complaints anywhere else.

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tenia
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Re: 885 The Lodger: A Story of the London Fog

#64 Post by tenia » Tue Jul 18, 2017 8:37 am

FrauBlucher wrote:Has anyone watched the blu yet? The gentlemen on the Nitrateville site are complaining about Criterion transferring in 1080P instead of 1080i. I know they are a bit geeky about this stuff, but I haven't heard any complaints anywhere else.
The issue on Nitrateville is that people seems to have looked first at the pattern and not if the end-result is jerky or not... So far, they don't give much detail about this, despite being the most important info !

However, if The Lodger and Downhill are both supposed to be 20fps, it's surprising that the first has every fifth frame repeated but the second has every fourth frame repeated. That would mean one of them might be "correct" while the other isn't.

The interesting comparison would be the UK release of The Lodger, which also is 1080p. I would be surprised if one is jerky and the other isn't.

Orlac
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Re: 885 The Lodger: A Story of the London Fog

#65 Post by Orlac » Sat Jul 29, 2017 7:10 am

I asked Waverboy severl times over the years to at least name his TV and BD Player to see if there's a solution. He just kept screaming the discs were at fault.

When I shared Michael B's article - http://www.nitrateville.com/viewtopic.p ... 30#p190245" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: 885 The Lodger: A Story of the London Fog

#66 Post by tenia » Sat Jul 29, 2017 7:27 am

My issue with how it's currently handled at Nitrate Ville is that, again, they're thinking about it at a theoritical level.
"At 24fps, a frame lasts that many ms, a doubled that many, it's noticeable".
Except that this doesn't account for how the repeat cycle is, so part of the trick to handling silent movies isn't taken into account.

I also have no idea why 60fps is suddenly thrown into the equation as a solution for 20fps reproduction.

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Re: 885 The Lodger: A Story of the London Fog

#67 Post by MichaelB » Sat Jul 29, 2017 7:36 am

If the repeat frames are completely evenly spaced, it shouldn't be jerky. I seriously doubt that they'd notice if watching it unforewarned.

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885 The Lodger: A Story of the London Fog

#68 Post by MichaelB » Sat Jul 29, 2017 7:40 am

Oh, and just to scotch the ridiculous conspiracy theory, I wrote that piece for the BFI website as a freelance contributor. Nobody at BFI Video Publishing (a wholly separate department based in a different building miles away) approved (or dictated) the content or were even aware that I was writing the piece until it appeared - I didn't even need to interview anyone at the BFI because I'd already discussed silent film framerate issues in exhaustive detail with Nick Wrigley, who's probably overseen more silent-film BD and DVD releases than anyone else in the country.

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Re: 885 The Lodger: A Story of the London Fog

#69 Post by JonasEB » Sat Jul 29, 2017 11:12 am

tenia wrote:I also have no idea why 60fps is suddenly thrown into the equation as a solution for 20fps reproduction.
You can get perfectly smooth motion out of a 20fps film if you interlace at 60i. There has been lots of propaganda against interlacing but it's the only way to get smooth motion out of many of these films. Fake 24fps is always jerky, less noticeable in some cases, but unless it's perfectly even (every single frame is repeated the same amount of times) it will not be as smooth as it really could be.

De-interlacing quality is player dependent. Get a PS3 and watch an interlaced silent and you'll see no combing.

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Re: 885 The Lodger: A Story of the London Fog

#70 Post by Moshrom » Sat Jul 29, 2017 11:44 am

On the topic of that Potemkine article, the second pressing of the BFI blu-ray (the one that fixes the 'jaggies') doesn't actually use the correct '3 successive frames -> 1 dupe' pattern. The first pressing does, but the second one doesn't.

It's been a while since I've skipped through it, but if I recall correctly the second pressing has the duplicate frames scattered randomly, and it appeared as though it was run through a de-duper along the way -- frames with actual content are missing.

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Re: 885 The Lodger: A Story of the London Fog

#71 Post by tenia » Sat Jul 29, 2017 11:54 am

JonasEB wrote:
tenia wrote:I also have no idea why 60fps is suddenly thrown into the equation as a solution for 20fps reproduction.
You can get perfectly smooth motion out of a 20fps film if you interlace at 60i.
It's not a question of interlacing, it's just that I suppose you would have to triple all of the 20 frames to maintain the same duration, and I don't see how tripling 20 frames per second would get you a better result.
Moshrom wrote:On the topic of that Potemkine article, the second pressing of the BFI blu-ray (the one that fixes the 'jaggies') doesn't actually use the correct '3 successive frames -> 1 dupe' pattern. The first pressing does, but the second one doesn't.
This is worrying.

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Re: 885 The Lodger: A Story of the London Fog

#72 Post by Moshrom » Sat Jul 29, 2017 12:27 pm

tenia wrote: This is worrying.
Well no one noticed, so...

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Re: 885 The Lodger: A Story of the London Fog

#73 Post by TMDaines » Sat Jul 29, 2017 6:57 pm

Moshrom wrote:On the topic of that Potemkine article, the second pressing of the BFI blu-ray (the one that fixes the 'jaggies') doesn't actually use the correct '3 successive frames -> 1 dupe' pattern. The first pressing does, but the second one doesn't.

It's been a while since I've skipped through it, but if I recall correctly the second pressing has the duplicate frames scattered randomly, and it appeared as though it was run through a de-duper along the way -- frames with actual content are missing.
Say what? Please tell more.

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885 The Lodger: A Story of the London Fog

#74 Post by movielocke » Fri Oct 27, 2017 3:22 am

Downhill might be one of my least favorite hitch cock films, it is just so extraordinarily boring. Given the entire film hinges on the extraordinarily implausible scenario of a wealthy youth firstly being held accountable for his (alleged) actions and naturally ends with full restoration of privilege there is simply no drama to the turgid and interminable plot.

Watching the lodger for the second time, the first in about fifteen years, I was blown away at how excellent it is. Brilliantly paced from the striking opening closeup death scream the film just is expertly crafted in every way, better than I remember blackmail being, and probably better than anything before sabotage.

This is a really a superb and stacked edition as well. The new interviews are fascinating, even if they seem to overreach a bit in their assertions of how super-intentional with extensive (critical) archeological meaning all Hitchcock's choices are.

I was amused that the first interview identifies a picture of st George freeing a human sacrifice and the second interview identifies the same painting as "a painting of a rape"

That dichotomy in interpretation works quite well within the thematics of the film

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