13 The Silence of the Lambs

Discuss DVDs and Blu-rays released by Criterion and the films on them. If it's got a spine number, it's in here. Threads may contain spoilers.
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Big Ben
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Re: 13 The Silence of the Lambs

#26 Post by Big Ben » Wed Nov 15, 2017 4:36 pm

Just because something makes money doesn't mean it doesn't have any artistic merit. Furthermore more people discovering a boutique label and possibly exploring more films is also a plus.

I first saw this in a very, very poor transfer so this release is more than welcome. Absolutely stoked about this!

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hearthesilence
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Re: 13 The Silence of the Lambs

#27 Post by hearthesilence » Wed Nov 15, 2017 4:36 pm

Still it's a much welcome upgrade. I'm not a huge fan of this film, but the commentary remains exemplary. It's almost the gold standard of movie commentaries given the sources involved and how it's edited together.

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Re: 13 The Silence of the Lambs

#28 Post by djproject » Wed Nov 15, 2017 4:38 pm

The restoration was actually a new effort and was supervised and approved by Tak Fujimoto. My hold-up on getting previous Blu releases was uncertainty about the image quality and whether it was met with Demme’s and/or Fujimoto’s approval.

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Re: 13 The Silence of the Lambs

#29 Post by hearthesilence » Wed Nov 15, 2017 4:53 pm

Bear in mind, according to the copy printed on all releases, Fujimoto approved the transfers for Criterion's old DVD and the one used for MGM's subsequent releases, and the two look very different. I think this one will be much more promising, but regardless, that's something to keep in mind.

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Re: 13 The Silence of the Lambs

#30 Post by John Shade » Wed Nov 15, 2017 4:56 pm

EddieLarkin wrote:This release will mark the very first time the film will be available on home video in what I would deem acceptable HD quality, as the old Blu-ray is very mediocre, making it an absolutely essential release.
Bring on Lebowski...

When people say cash cow, do we have any indication what Criterion best sellers are? You think people who already own the film on dvd or blu ray will buy again--the so called average customer (as opposed to us hoarding lot)?

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Re: 13 The Silence of the Lambs

#31 Post by kcota17 » Wed Nov 15, 2017 5:24 pm

John Shade wrote:
EddieLarkin wrote:This release will mark the very first time the film will be available on home video in what I would deem acceptable HD quality, as the old Blu-ray is very mediocre, making it an absolutely essential release.
Bring on Lebowski...

When people say cash cow, do we have any indication what Criterion best sellers are? You think people who already own the film on dvd or blu ray will buy again--the so called average customer (as opposed to us hoarding lot)?
Also, no one can really complain about “cash cows” coming out like Breakfast Club or Silence of the Lambs when Criterion has literally announced a ton of new-to-blu-ray titles for 2018 so far in addition.

(I think they’re both justifiable too, but for all the people that do complain about them, Criterion is clearly making it up for them)

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Re: 13 The Silence of the Lambs

#32 Post by PfR73 » Wed Nov 15, 2017 5:47 pm

Jameson281 wrote:
mfunk9786 wrote:A rare essential reissue of a film that's been released dozens of times across a number of formats. Looks like a real labor of love from Criterion
Not that much "labor" involved beyond the new interview with Maitland McDonagh, and a couple of the essays. MGM did the transfer and all the other extras have been out before.
Criterion is claiming 35 minutes of deleted scenes whereas previous releases have only had about 21 minutes, so if the runtime is correct, there should be new ones.

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Re: 13 The Silence of the Lambs

#33 Post by kcota17 » Wed Nov 15, 2017 7:00 pm

I believe Criterions original release had 15 minutes that were different from the MGM release. So the 36 minutes is both releases put together.

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Re: 13 The Silence of the Lambs

#34 Post by McCrutchy » Thu Nov 16, 2017 4:19 am

John Shade wrote:
EddieLarkin wrote:This release will mark the very first time the film will be available on home video in what I would deem acceptable HD quality, as the old Blu-ray is very mediocre, making it an absolutely essential release.
Bring on Lebowski...

When people say cash cow, do we have any indication what Criterion best sellers are? You think people who already own the film on dvd or blu ray will buy again--the so called average customer (as opposed to us hoarding lot)?
For a new 4K scan in a two-disc Blu-ray set? Absolutely. 4K is a new buzzword, and the previous Blu-ray is almost a decade old and obviously mediocre. I'm sure even to untrained eyes, the Criterion will be viewed as superior in every way. And this film has many fans who will be excited to purchase the new Blu-ray from one of the now-frequent 50% off sales. I fully expect it will be one of Criterion's biggest selling titles of 2018, not least because it will be coming on the same day as Night of the Living Dead, which will get the Horror crowd out anyway.

The Big Lebowski, on the other hand, has already been revealed as a 2018 release on UHD BD from Universal, so a Criterion upgrade is less likely, until they start upgrading titles.

And for you guys complaining about "cash cows", do you not see the bigger picture here? I think it's fairly obvious that Criterion has (to a point) resumed their LD mandate, which means from now on, we'll see probably 10-15 modern Hollywood films in Special Editions on Criterion Blu-ray (and perhaps in the future, UHD BD) which Criterion would have not put out when DVD reigned supreme from perhaps 2002-2008. After all, MGM had access to this new scan, and despite the fact that they could sell it, they chose not to, possibly for a while (I thought the scan was done in 2014, but perhaps that's incorrect), and so it was just sitting there, never being seen, at least by most.

This is why we're seeing the Kubrick films, and WB films, and the Hitchcock films back in or added to the Collection, because the major studios once again do not care about re-releasing catalogue titles in Special Editions on Blu-ray. Criterion are basically picking up the slack, and as these films tend to be popular, I'm sure the profit margins mean we actually end up getting more films, and better editions of films overall than we would without these "cash cows". Just look at how more and more two-disc Blu-ray editions are popping up, for example.

Also, just on a final note, it annoys me how it is becoming trendy to pick apart this film for perceived flaws. I think, as I have always thought, that it is a masterpiece, and one of the finest American films since the 1970s. More to the point, it's definitely better than Manhunter, which is gripping and stylish, but less emotional and menacing. And sure, Red Dragon made Manhunter look a lot better by comparison, and Hopkins didn't do his legacy as Lecter any favors by appearing in such a pedestrian film (at least Hannibal was basically a fast-food kind of diversion), but that doesn't change the fact that he is brilliant in The Silence of the Lambs.

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Re: 13 The Silence of the Lambs

#35 Post by aox » Thu Nov 16, 2017 8:13 am

On that note, I am surprised Criterion hasn't released their two Michael Bay "cash cows" on BD.

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Re: 13 The Silence of the Lambs

#36 Post by djproject » Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:37 am

hearthesilence wrote:Bear in mind, according to the copy printed on all releases, Fujimoto approved the transfers for Criterion's old DVD and the one used for MGM's subsequent releases, and the two look very different. I think this one will be much more promising, but regardless, that's something to keep in mind.
The old DVD was very likely a carryover from the LD and thus was optimized for that presentation. Also, I think Demme had the final say for the Criterion one. Given this a 4k scan of the OCN (is there a confirmation as to *when* this was done?), I think may be a chance to come up with something more definitive that will hold in the future. But you are right: we shall wait and see.

I know there has been this concern - and an understandable one at that - where cinematographers and/or directors are involved in colour grading sessions and can lead to a revision of what was originally presented in the theatres. I like to think that it most often performed with restoration in mind and any revisions are done either to address issues that couldn't be resolved with the means and resources at the time (traditional colour timing is an imprecise art than a science =] ) or to make perfect that experience, whether you are seeing it for the first time or the five hundredth.

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Re: 13 The Silence of the Lambs

#37 Post by hearthesilence » Thu Nov 16, 2017 12:28 pm

I think this scan was recent, as it was partly done for the theatrical reissue that's now making the rounds in the UK, apparently to much critical acclaim AND good business. (Jodie Foster even took part in a Q&A at the BFI - it's available for viewing on the BFI's Facebook page.)

Personally, I think the later transfer was too bright and a touch too cool. The earlier one was a bit off in color but otherwise it felt right for the film, especially in the dark interior sequences. (Too bad it was a letterboxed SD master.)

FWIW, here's Jonathan Rosenbaum's take on the film, one of his more widely-read pans of a popular film.

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Re: 13 The Silence of the Lambs

#38 Post by Jameson281 » Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:42 pm

djproject wrote:
hearthesilence wrote:Bear in mind, according to the copy printed on all releases, Fujimoto approved the transfers for Criterion's old DVD and the one used for MGM's subsequent releases, and the two look very different. I think this one will be much more promising, but regardless, that's something to keep in mind.
The old DVD was very likely a carryover from the LD and thus was optimized for that presentation. Also, I think Demme had the final say for the Criterion one. Given this a 4k scan of the OCN (is there a confirmation as to *when* this was done?), I think may be a chance to come up with something more definitive that will hold in the future. But you are right: we shall wait and see.

I know there has been this concern - and an understandable one at that - where cinematographers and/or directors are involved in colour grading sessions and can lead to a revision of what was originally presented in the theatres. I like to think that it most often performed with restoration in mind and any revisions are done either to address issues that couldn't be resolved with the means and resources at the time (traditional colour timing is an imprecise art than a science =] ) or to make perfect that experience, whether you are seeing it for the first time or the five hundredth.
The 4K was done just a few months ago from the OCN.

Demme never voiced any desire to supervise new transfers of any of his titles, and always deferred to Tak on those matters.
Last edited by Jameson281 on Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 13 The Silence of the Lambs

#39 Post by colinr0380 » Thu Nov 16, 2017 6:23 pm

Its a great month of films all around but I particularly love the nice scheduling touch that with The Silence of the Lambs and Night of the Living Dead coming out in the same month we have a double bill of Pittsburgh set classic horror films! (Plus George Romero apparently has a brief cameo in Demme's film!)

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Re: 13 The Silence of the Lambs

#40 Post by hearthesilence » Thu Nov 16, 2017 6:26 pm

colinr0380 wrote:Its a great month of films all around but I particularly love the nice scheduling touch that with The Silence of the Lambs and Night of the Living Dead coming out in the same month we have a double bill of Pittsburgh set classic horror films! (Plus George Romero apparently has a brief cameo in Demme's film!)
I was confused by this, as the film takes place primarily around Baltimore and Virginia, but I looked into it and discovered that it was shot around Pittsburgh, and yes, George A. Romero plays an FBI Agent in Memphis!

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Re: 13 The Silence of the Lambs

#41 Post by colinr0380 » Thu Nov 16, 2017 6:50 pm

Oops, yes I should have said Pittsburgh-filmed horror films!

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Re: 13 The Silence of the Lambs

#42 Post by flyonthewall2983 » Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:47 pm

"American Girl" by Tom Petty And The Heartbreakers features in one scene of this (and is actually represented in the brief video on the Criterion site). Anthony Hopkins stars in the video (directed by Sean Penn and Samuel Bayer) for "I Forgive It All" from the 2nd Mudcrutch album, released last year and the last one of Petty's albums to come out while he was alive.

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Re: 13 The Silence of the Lambs

#43 Post by Rupert Pupkin » Sat Nov 18, 2017 2:24 am

great news!

I've been impressed by the restoration trailer here :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSQciiKhqXc" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

does the BF1 logo at the beginning implies that in the UK it will be released by BFI, not Criterion ?

the color are different than the "old" Blu-Ray I have and I'm very pleased with what I look. Since this is a X4 restoration and J.Demme used to make a lot of close-ups, this will be certainly fantastic...
the only thing which I found a bit odd is the last sequence in the trailer. It looks like if they reworked the infra-red glasses with a green from green is my valley - a-la Zero Dark Thirty, whereas in looked much more like pale green in my memories from the theatrical release (and what I can see on the soon "old" blu-ray), which looks almost black & white - Jodie's frightened eyes looked better thank way (this is the best scene I have seen with "Peeping Tom") which emphasized IMHO this great scene when the hand is hesistating to touch Jodie Foster's hair...

Do you think they have green those infra-red glasses (I mean from Sicario to Zero Dark Thirty they are all green...)

all the rest of the color palette of the new restoration looks superb to me...

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Re: 13 The Silence of the Lambs

#44 Post by McCrutchy » Tue Nov 28, 2017 6:01 pm

Surprisingly, Amazon.com have price-matched Walmart.com to make this only $18.31.

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Re: 13 The Silence of the Lambs

#45 Post by DeprongMori » Tue Nov 28, 2017 6:51 pm

The Amazon offer is gone, but WalMart was still valid. Mine’s confirmed pre-ordered now. Thanks for the pointer.

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Re: 13 The Silence of the Lambs

#46 Post by swo17 » Tue Nov 28, 2017 7:04 pm

Still shows up on Amazon for me

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Re: 13 The Silence of the Lambs

#47 Post by Big Ben » Tue Nov 28, 2017 7:14 pm

I managed to snag one at Amazon earlier when I saw McCrutchy's post. It is currently unavailable as of right now.

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Re: 13 The Silence of the Lambs

#48 Post by McCrutchy » Tue Nov 28, 2017 7:56 pm

Back up now for the same price.

Like I said, I fully expect this to be one of Criterion's top sellers for 2018, but even I couldn't have guessed there would be websites outbidding one another for pre-orders at 54% off.

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Re: 13 The Silence of the Lambs

#49 Post by McCrutchy » Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:28 pm

So, here is some wild math:

July 1998 Criterion DVD: $39.95, or over $60 in October 2017.

November 1996 Criterion CLV LD: $49.95, or over $77 in October 2017.

September 1994 Criterion SE CAV LD: $99.95, or over $165 in October 2017.

February 2018 Criterion SE Blu-ray: $18.31, or $11.09 in 1994, which is less than 1/9 of the price of the CAV LD.

And sure, maybe you could find the LDs and DVD cheaper, especially the LDs around 1998-1999, but in general, prices for Criterion titles were prices for Criterion titles, and they rarely, if ever, came down, especially when there were cheaper competing versions put out by other studios.

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Re: 13 The Silence of the Lambs

#50 Post by Morbii » Tue Nov 28, 2017 11:57 pm

McCrutchy wrote:Back up now for the same price.

Like I said, I fully expect this to be one of Criterion's top sellers for 2018, but even I couldn't have guessed there would be websites outbidding one another for pre-orders at 54% off.
Which is still more expensive than a Criterion flash sale (counting points) or a B&N sale (with membership that is used enough that it negates the price).

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