62 The Passion of Joan of Arc

Discuss DVDs and Blu-rays released by Criterion and the films on them. If it's got a spine number, it's in here. Threads may contain spoilers.
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whaleallright
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2005 12:56 am

Re: 62 The Passion of Joan of Arc

#176 Post by whaleallright » Thu Nov 30, 2017 6:06 pm

Drucker wrote:Not sure specifically about what you are talking about, but it was an Ufa production,
FWIW this wasn't an UFA film, it was a French production financed by the Société générale des films, an outfit that was basically devoted to making what we'd now call ambitious "art films." They also funded Gance's Napoléon. (This was just one of many such, mostly short-lived firms in 1920s France.)

There's a fair bit about the making of Passion on the DFI's Dreyer website, including some on-set photographs.

Brianruns10
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Re: 62 The Passion of Joan of Arc

#177 Post by Brianruns10 » Mon Dec 04, 2017 3:15 pm

For those interested, I just published the first video in a series I hope to undertake, examining various films from a historical, technical and analytical perspective. This first video is a comparison of the two different cuts of The Passion of Joan of Arc:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGRY2Su ... e=youtu.be

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swo17
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Re: 62 The Passion of Joan of Arc

#178 Post by swo17 » Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:26 pm


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kcota17
Joined: Fri Feb 28, 2014 9:05 pm

Re: 62 The Passion of Joan of Arc

#179 Post by kcota17 » Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:30 pm

Very disappointed the Lo Duca version isn’t included like in the MoC package. Otherwise looks like a great package. I’ve been eager for a Blu-Ray or this for a long time now.

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senseabove
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Re: 62 The Passion of Joan of Arc

#180 Post by senseabove » Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:38 pm

I think I'll end up double-dipping on this one... How's the Tybjerg commentary?


Brianruns10 wrote:For those interested, I just published the first video in a series I hope to undertake, examining various films from a historical, technical and analytical perspective. This first video is a comparison of the two different cuts of The Passion of Joan of Arc:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGRY2Su ... e=youtu.be
Just wanted to say I enjoyed this very much :)

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Drucker
Your Future our Drucker
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Re: 62 The Passion of Joan of Arc

#181 Post by Drucker » Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:36 pm

Biggest let down is that the new resoratiom only appears in 24fps. Why couldn't they also show it at 20fps?

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Big Ben
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Re: 62 The Passion of Joan of Arc

#182 Post by Big Ben » Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:39 pm

Drucker wrote:Biggest let down is that the new resoratiom only appears in 24fps. Why couldn't they also show it at 20fps?
Better than nothing?
Alternate presentation of the film at 20 frames per second with original Danish intertitles

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kcota17
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Re: 62 The Passion of Joan of Arc

#183 Post by kcota17 » Fri Dec 15, 2017 7:04 pm

Drucker wrote:Biggest let down is that the new resoratiom only appears in 24fps. Why couldn't they also show it at 20fps?
I’m assuming they’re using the new restoration is being used for that? Why would they need a separate source if they’re just adjusting the speed?

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Drucker
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Re: 62 The Passion of Joan of Arc

#184 Post by Drucker » Fri Dec 15, 2017 7:08 pm

kcota17 wrote:
Drucker wrote:Biggest let down is that the new resoratiom only appears in 24fps. Why couldn't they also show it at 20fps?
I’m assuming they’re using the new restoration is being used for that? Why would they need a separate source if they’re just adjusting the speed?
Not sure! But I thought the restoration and okd Crit used French intertitles, and it was the MOC version that used Danish ones?

Werewolf by Night

Re: 62 The Passion of Joan of Arc

#185 Post by Werewolf by Night » Fri Dec 15, 2017 7:13 pm

Perhaps the scores were written, performed, and recorded with the film playing at 24 fps?

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kcota17
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Re: 62 The Passion of Joan of Arc

#186 Post by kcota17 » Fri Dec 15, 2017 7:23 pm

Werewolf by Night wrote:Perhaps the scores were written, performed, and recorded with the film playing at 24 fps?
Yes that also. But I imagine the image quality wouldn’t be different. So I wonder what score will be used. Maybe silent like Dreyer’s intentions?

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movielocke
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Re: 62 The Passion of Joan of Arc

#187 Post by movielocke » Fri Dec 15, 2017 7:27 pm

kcota17 wrote:
Drucker wrote:Biggest let down is that the new resoratiom only appears in 24fps. Why couldn't they also show it at 20fps?
I’m assuming they’re using the new restoration is being used for that? Why would they need a separate source if they’re just adjusting the speed?
Probably because the 20fps one is a fresh image harvest with no duplicated frames and the 24 one was licensed with duplicate frames embedded on the sr tape.

Also the audio would be an issue.

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senseabove
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Re: 62 The Passion of Joan of Arc

#188 Post by senseabove » Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:27 pm

Both the Guamont/Janus restoration and the MoC restoration come from the same scan, as far as I can tell from the "source" descriptions in the MoC booklet and the Janus press pack (with a LOT more work done by Gaumont, though). So I would assume the French intertitles are reconstructions, not from the scan itself, which would have the Danish intertitles. And it would make sense that Gaumont would privilege the French intertitles for its restoration, which it then supplied to Janus... It definitely seems unlikely that Janus would license the less-cleaned-up MoC restoration just to include a 20fps version, so I feel like it has to be from the new restoration... Then all they have to do is license the score that matches the 20fps version and reinsert the original intertitles. So I guess the question for now is which is Janus more likely to have done:
-licensed the 20fps version from Eureka,
-reinserted the Danish intertitles form the original scan into the Gaumont restoration
-is including a different (raw, unrestored?) scan at 20fps


From Janus: "The restoration was created from a 2K scan of a duplicate negative made from the Danish Film Institute’s nitrate copy of Carl Theodor Dreyer’s original cut."
From MoC: "...sourced form a 35mm dupe negative made from the original 1928 Danish preservation materials held at the DFI. The film was scanned at 2K resolution..."

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The Masked Marvel
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Re: 62 The Passion of Joan of Arc

#189 Post by The Masked Marvel » Sat Dec 23, 2017 2:06 pm

Very excited for this. That said, I’m disappointed that Loren Connors’s score isn’t included on this version - that was one of my favorite things about MoC’s treatment of the film.

As several of you have pointed out, I’m sure it has more to do with issues related to frame rate more than anything else.

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whaleallright
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Re: 62 The Passion of Joan of Arc

#190 Post by whaleallright » Sat Dec 23, 2017 5:58 pm

I contacted Criterion to encourage them to add the Connors score, if at all possible. As someone who is usually disappointed by avant-garde musicians performing to silent films, I was really delighted with Connors's work, which is the only score to this film I've heard that even remotely does it justice. The "Visions of Light" oratorio seems to me a complete travesty--a showboating score that continually competes with and imposes a unrelenting and unsubtle "intensity" onto the film. I think it's a shame that there are many folks who seem to think it's the definitive score to Dreyer's film.

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Big Ben
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Re: 62 The Passion of Joan of Arc

#191 Post by Big Ben » Sat Dec 23, 2017 6:30 pm

whaleallright wrote: The "Visions of Light" oratorio seems to me a complete travesty--a showboating score that continually competes with and imposes a unrelenting and unsubtle "intensity" onto the film. I think it's a shame that there are many folks who seem to think it's the definitive score to Dreyer's film.
When I first saw this I hated the Visions of Light score so much I muted the film. It was absolutely insufferable and I'm sure it created a bad first impression of the entire feature. I hate the Visions of Light Score.

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Boosmahn
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Re: 62 The Passion of Joan of Arc

#192 Post by Boosmahn » Sat Dec 23, 2017 7:21 pm

So, what's the definitive version to listen to, not assuming the Connors score will be added? Visions of Light is apparently terrible, so that's out the window for now...

:-k

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Gregory
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Re: 62 The Passion of Joan of Arc

#193 Post by Gregory » Sat Dec 23, 2017 7:25 pm

Silence

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Saturnome
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Re: 62 The Passion of Joan of Arc

#194 Post by Saturnome » Sat Dec 23, 2017 8:09 pm

I never watched the movie with any soundtrack. I still haven't heard Visions of Light! It works really well, and it's pretty much the only silent film I watch in complete silence by choice (instead of because the chosen soundtrack is terrible or because there's none, but it's rare)

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aox
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Re: 62 The Passion of Joan of Arc

#195 Post by aox » Sat Dec 23, 2017 9:09 pm

Another vote for complete silence. This is probably the only silent film (or film) I would say that about.

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MichaelB
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Re: 62 The Passion of Joan of Arc

#196 Post by MichaelB » Sun Dec 24, 2017 1:11 pm

Silent at 20fps.

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solaris72
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Re: 62 The Passion of Joan of Arc

#197 Post by solaris72 » Sun Dec 24, 2017 4:52 pm

Am I the only barbarian here who actually likes watching it with Voices of Light?

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Drucker
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Re: 62 The Passion of Joan of Arc

#198 Post by Drucker » Sun Dec 24, 2017 5:00 pm

solaris72 wrote:Am I the only barbarian here who actually likes watching it with Voices of Light?
Yes.

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swo17
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Re: 62 The Passion of Joan of Arc

#199 Post by swo17 » Sun Dec 24, 2017 5:14 pm

I like it, but I wouldn't necessarily call it my favorite. I value having the option to watch it that way, but I also never imagined that Criterion's release would render the MoC superfluous. I'm happy to own both.

Werewolf by Night

62 The Passion of Joan of Arc

#200 Post by Werewolf by Night » Sun Dec 24, 2017 5:15 pm

I watched it that way in 1999 and I thought I liked it, but reading this thread I now doubt myself. Maybe I was just a callow, untutored, unwashed youth.
Last edited by Werewolf by Night on Sun Dec 24, 2017 11:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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