727 The Innocents

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swo17
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727 The Innocents

#1 Post by swo17 » Mon Jun 16, 2014 5:43 pm

The Innocents

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This genuinely frightening, exquisitely made supernatural gothic stars Deborah Kerr as an emotionally fragile governess who comes to suspect that there is something very, very wrong with her precocious new charges. A psychosexually intensified adaptation of Henry James's classic The Turn of the Screw, cowritten by Truman Capote and directed by Jack Clayton, The Innocents is a triumph of narrative economy and technical expressiveness, from its chilling sound design to the stygian depths of its widescreen cinematography by Freddie Francis.

SPECIAL FEATURES

• New 4K digital restoration, with uncompressed monaural soundtrack on the Blu-ray
• Introduction by cultural historian Christopher Frayling
• Audio commentary featuring Frayling
• New interview with cinematographer John Bailey about director of photography Freddie Francis and the look of the film
• New piece on the making of the film, featuring interviews from 2006 with Francis, editor Jim Clark, and script supervisor Pamela Mann Francis
• Trailer
• PLUS: An essay by critic Maitland McDonagh

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domino harvey
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Re: 727 The Innocents

#2 Post by domino harvey » Mon Jun 16, 2014 5:51 pm

So, this actually contains the same commentary from the UK Blu-ray but loses the Frayling intro, the two Clayton short films, and the "Designed by Motley" feature from that release

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Re: 727 The Innocents

#3 Post by giovannii84 » Mon Jun 16, 2014 6:02 pm

domino harvey wrote:So, this actually contains the same commentary from the UK Blu-ray but loses the Frayling intro, the two Clayton short films, and the "Designed by Motley" feature from that release
They could be part of the "More"

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EddieLarkin
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Re: 727 The Innocents

#4 Post by EddieLarkin » Mon Jun 16, 2014 6:06 pm

It does have a new transfer though. As good as the BFI disc looks, it's still a DVD era master from 2005.

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Koukol
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Re: 727 The Innocents

#5 Post by Koukol » Mon Jun 16, 2014 6:17 pm

I'm not happy with the BFI so bring it on!

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Re: 727 The Innocents

#6 Post by Glowingwabbit » Mon Jun 16, 2014 7:57 pm

Even though I already have a copy I'd really like to see them release James' Turn of the Screw with this release. I adore both the novella and the film (which is a fantastic adaptation of the source material). But just having this film as a criterion release is great news.

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Minkin
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Re: 727 The Innocents

#7 Post by Minkin » Wed Jul 16, 2014 6:35 pm

Well, everybody stand back, cause here's your "more" -

Introduction by cultural historian Christopher Frayling (I assume the same 25min "introduction" thats on the BFI)
----
Plus the "archival interviews with" have turned into:

New piece on the making of the film, featuring interviews from 2006 with Francis, editor Jim Clark, and script supervisor Pamela Mann Francis

I suppose fans will want to pick up both the BFI and the Criterion sets (Bfi for the shorts, Criterion for the 4k restored transfer+ interviews). Also just noticed, that the DVD is only 1disc now (or was it always that way?). Seems like they fell short with this one- on a chance for going all out.

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Minkin
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Re: 727 The Innocents

#8 Post by Minkin » Sun Aug 31, 2014 5:48 pm


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Koukol
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Re: 727 The Innocents

#9 Post by Koukol » Tue Sep 02, 2014 12:47 am

Minkin wrote:Bluray.com

Stunning!

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manicsounds
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Re: 727 The Innocents

#10 Post by manicsounds » Tue Sep 02, 2014 9:55 am


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Drucker
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Re: 727 The Innocents

#11 Post by Drucker » Tue Sep 02, 2014 10:28 am

Looks fantastic. And for once the Criterion is the one showing more information on the sides!

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Altair
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Re: 727 The Innocents

#12 Post by Altair » Tue Sep 02, 2014 11:08 am

I don't want to be the voice of dissent here, but... going by Beaver's caps, I would say there is less grain present than in the BFI. In #3, the sky has clouds in it in the BFI cap, which are gone in the Criterion. I don't own the disc, just going by the caps and it maybe closer to the theatrical view. Just pointing it out to see what everybody thinks.

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Drucker
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Re: 727 The Innocents

#13 Post by Drucker » Tue Sep 02, 2014 11:20 am

I'm fairly certain a proper 4k restoration has the potential to reduce grain, especially if it came from the OCN. Another thing that sticks out is how much darker the Criterion is.

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EddieLarkin
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Re: 727 The Innocents

#14 Post by EddieLarkin » Tue Sep 02, 2014 11:38 am

Altair wrote:I don't want to be the voice of dissent here, but... going by Beaver's caps, I would say there is less grain present than in the BFI. In #3, the sky has clouds in it in the BFI cap, which are gone in the Criterion. I don't own the disc, just going by the caps and it maybe closer to the theatrical view. Just pointing it out to see what everybody thinks.
There is clearly grain in the Criterion cap as well, but it is much more fine and thus doesn't stand out as much. This is typical of a higher quality, higher resolution scan. The BFI looks quite videoy/noisy in comparison.

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Koukol
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Re: 727 The Innocents

#15 Post by Koukol » Tue Sep 02, 2014 2:30 pm

EddieLarkin wrote:
Altair wrote:I don't want to be the voice of dissent here, but... going by Beaver's caps, I would say there is less grain present than in the BFI. In #3, the sky has clouds in it in the BFI cap, which are gone in the Criterion. I don't own the disc, just going by the caps and it maybe closer to the theatrical view. Just pointing it out to see what everybody thinks.
There is clearly grain in the Criterion cap as well, but it is much more fine and thus doesn't stand out as much. This is typical of a higher quality, higher resolution scan. The BFI looks quite videoy/noisy in comparison.

Absolutely!

This Criterion looks perfect!

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DarkImbecile
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Re: 727 The Innocents

#16 Post by DarkImbecile » Tue Oct 21, 2014 8:57 pm

It has been about fifteen years since I first saw The Innocents in a college film class, and I was blown away both by how fantastic the film looks on Blu-ray and how much better the movie itself was than in my memory (I must not have been in the most receptive of moods at the time).

The drastically increased image clarity makes the truly gorgeous sets and locations even more attractive and immersive, and dramatically highlights the darkening effects Clayton used to ramp up the claustrophobia and atmosphere of unreality in the night scenes, almost creating a kind of tunnel vision that speaks to the beautiful Deborah Kerr's state of mind. Speaking of which, I was very impressed by how well Clayton's direction and Capote's screenplay established the sexual repression element, without being too explicit with it even as it builds into a delirium.

Finally, the fact that the film very deftly handles the ambiguity regarding Kerr's reliability as our narrator without sacrificing the legitimately creepy ghost imagery (the classic woman in the reeds shot being the best example) pushes this one into my all-time favorites for the genre. Really grateful for the spectacular transfer, and for the chance to reevaluate an excellent late October viewing treat.

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Re: 727 The Innocents

#17 Post by Moshrom » Wed Oct 22, 2014 4:59 am

There is some controversy (which I use in the loosest sense of the word) over the fact that the transfer has been horizontally squeezed to eliminate the dreaded Cinemascope 'mumps' effect.

I'm inclined to agree that the aspect ratio shouldn't have been adjusted. ...But either way, it looks fantastic and it's a small quibble to make.

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Re: 727 The Innocents

#18 Post by DarkImbecile » Wed Oct 22, 2014 11:11 am

Yeah, I noticed it wasn't a true 2.35:1 early on, but stopped caring about five minutes in because the transfer itself is so big an improvement. If forced to choose, I personally would sacrifice some tinkering around the edges or slight squeezing for a vastly improved transfer every time (though I'd obviously prefer to have it presented the way it's supposed to be with the awesome transfer).

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tojoed
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Re: 727 The Innocents

#19 Post by tojoed » Wed Oct 22, 2014 4:38 pm

You should probably get the BFI Blu as well, which is in the original 2.35:1 scope ratio.
It also has the marvellous short film The Bespoke Overcoat, and it was very cheap the last time I saw it at £7.

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The Fanciful Norwegian
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Re: 727 The Innocents

#20 Post by The Fanciful Norwegian » Fri Oct 31, 2014 8:22 pm

The BFI looks so heavily cropped in comparison to the Criterion that I don't see how it could be considered any more accurate. Is it possible the older transfer is from a cropped source that was then stretched to 2.35:1?

Mattiomattio
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Re: 727 The Innocents

#21 Post by Mattiomattio » Sun Nov 30, 2014 11:11 am

Just wondering if anybody knows if the Spanish blu ray features the 4k scan?

http://www.amazon.es/Suspense-Blu-ray-D ... +innocents

Owning to the fact that the Criterion version is region locked I am trying to find one compatible with my BR player.

Thanks

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Re: 727 The Innocents

#22 Post by Hank Quinlan » Mon Dec 29, 2014 4:09 pm

I'm seeing very faint wavy lines across Deborah Kerr's face in chapter 7 beginning about 45:40. It even seems to be visible across the frame to Megs Jenkins in this scene. Has anyone else noted this, or can someone confirm it as a disc transfer issue?

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Roger Ryan
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Re: 727 The Innocents

#23 Post by Roger Ryan » Sat Jan 03, 2015 8:32 pm

Hank Quinlan wrote:I'm seeing very faint wavy lines across Deborah Kerr's face in chapter 7 beginning about 45:40. It even seems to be visible across the frame to Megs Jenkins in this scene. Has anyone else noted this, or can someone confirm it as a disc transfer issue?
I believe this may be due to the use of a lens filter in the scene, meaning it's inherent in the filmed image. Various filters were used throughout the shooting of this film (including the "vignette" filters noted in the extras); the focal length combined with the placement of lights and actors just revealed more attributes of the filter than was probably desired. It doesn't look like an electronic problem that occurred in the transfer.

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Re: 727 The Innocents

#24 Post by therewillbeblus » Tue Mar 03, 2020 3:57 pm

This film never fails to amaze me with its atmospheric beauty and seductive narrative. My favorite gothic horror film, no contest, deftly balances rhetorical questions on psychological symptoms in subtle surrealism with a graceful exposition on positive intent to forge a relationship with an unreadable other. The build is drastically accumulating in its anxiety that we experience less abrupt thrills and more of a symphony leading us to a crescendo of distress only heightened by our emotional investment, as well as the one between Kerr and the boy, and the ambiguity of reality to boot, as all comes undone and we are left with a void of comprehension far more horrifying than any actual ghosts could be! The child performance by Martin Stephens is up there with all-timers, and a lesser child actor would have surely botched the power of a character that must be aggressively provocative and enigmatic at the same time. The twist in this film's themes is that it is not a film about escape as most gothic horrors are, rooted in obvious fear, retreat, defensiveness; instead this is a film about the drive to connect, to help, to care for, to empower, all with positive intent of love. But there is fear, as always, lingering beneath the surface, and Kerr's surge of empathy in her mission to help children carries with it a source of fear that hasn't been given attention and seeks to infiltrate the space that she tries to desperately to occupy with positive energy.

In a sick kind of way, this is a film about that urge to commit empathetic action venturing into its own kind of solipsistic reality when unchecked with self-awareness (a contradiction in aims those who work in human services fields can attest to being honest) and how the vulnerabilities we refuse to acknowledge do not go away, but grow and fester until they threaten to destroy the psyche. What's that saying, you can't fill someone's cup until you fill your own? Miles certainly doesn't make it easy on Kerr, but it's his resistance to her kindness that reveals how weak her own skills were to begin with. The reality testing that Kerr endures is one long exposition on living in a bubble stuffed with nonstop gaslighting, the self-consciousness transforming the very air around her into evidence against her own perception of truth. After all, with an ego so fragile, we are no longer immune to the coating of comfort that allows us to breathe and see our preferred worldview, and anyone who has felt particularly endangered has likely been keen on all the opportunities that exist around us to hone in on negative evidence and harmful misperceptions targeted at our own defects. Some say that "FEAR" stands for False Evidence Appearing Real. Well, whether or not this film is about an actual haunting or one in the mind of Kerr, the horror is real for her, and that's all that matters.

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