288 F for Fake

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David Ehrenstein
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#76 Post by David Ehrenstein » Thu Oct 13, 2005 4:10 pm

Loved F For Fake when it came out, and over the years its only grown in stature to the point where it's my very favorite Welles film. Jonathan Rosenbaum has said that in some ways it was inspired by Pauline Kael's "Raising Kane" -- her long article on Citizen Kane which claims it for co-scriptwriter Herman J. Mankiewicz over Welles. That may be true in some ways, but more than anything else F For Fake shows Welles radically altering what had been his film style (ie. deep focus photography) and striking out in a new direction. It owes a debt to Sacha Guitry whose Le Roman d'un Tricheur is a clear influence, and for whom Welles worked as an actor. Still it has a special flavor all its own.

Welles collaborator on this "caper" Francois Reichenbach is a fascinating figure in his own rigt. The heir to the Guerlain perfume fortune he was part of George Platt Lynes set. He won an Oscar for his documentary Artur Rubinstein -- Love of Life and made several other notable documentary films. Yet he wasn't considered part of the cinema verite movement -- much in the way that Louis Malle (who also came from a wealthy family) wasn't considered part of the nouvelle vague.
Among other things Reichenbachwas director of photography on Paul Morrissey's Forty Deuce, the film that introduced Kevin Bacon (for all you "Six Degrees of" players)

Finally he was the inspiration for Patrice Chereau's Those Who Love Me Can Take the Train. In planning his own funeral, Reichenbach declared that he wanted to be buried in the family plot in Limoges. Chereua's co-scripter Danielle Thompson, a close friend of Reichenbach's protested that going to Limoges was too far, as all his friends were in Paris -- to which Reichenbach responded with the words that became the film's title.

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ben d banana
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#77 Post by ben d banana » Thu Nov 17, 2005 6:07 am

Okay, surely someone has mentioned this here before, but today was my first encounter with Manowar's Fighting The World album, featuring one Orson Welles on the track "Defender". Amazon is kind enough to provide a brief clip should you care to listen, although you really need to hear all six minutes of the song to feel its true glory. Just because I've twice listened to the entire Manowar interview picture disc doesn't mean I'm hopelessly biased.

For those too lazy to click a link, here are the opinions of some True Metal Warriors:
Hear ye, hear ye! For thy most presonal aspect of this work of passion and pride was the preasence of Orson Welles on the mighty tale, "Defender." An expression of skepticism fell across my countenance, as I did not foresee Sir Welles impressing me anymore than he had done in his films. However when I heard the track I was amazed. I have never heard a more emotionally intense preformance in all my years. My heart opened wider then all the young madiens whom come calling to Manowars bed chambers upon thy midnight hour of lust. Welles' preformance as a noble warrior, on his death bed, writing to a son whom he has never met in the flesh makes this faithful warrior shed enough tears to fill the nile. The great one's powerful passion makes his work in "Touch of Evil," "The Third Man," and even "Citizen Cane," look like the feeble-weak-life forsaken preformances given by such wimpy dogs as Adam Sandler. With Lord Adams enacting the voice and soul of the son, this heartbreaking tale is so full of spirit, it is impossible to believe they are not really father and son. After experiencing this powerful journey, I marched into the resthome where mine own father rested dormant. With all my heart I reached out my hand and pulled my father from his life-less slumber. Together we marched out into the sun set-hand in hand-two warriors on the quest bigger than life itself.
'Defender' is the real gem of this record. Originally recorded as a 12" back in 1982, in the spirit of 'Battle Hymns' and 'Into Glory Ride', it again features Orson Welles, now as the father writing a powerful letter to his only begotten son. It is gothic, ambient and almost brings me to tears. The chorus is absolutely beutiful! I never had the opportunity to hear the original version but it have been said that it is even better than this version.
"Defender" is quite great track...there's some man speaking too and it gives this song extra power.
EDIT: Duh, brain freeze, Welles is also on Manowar's debut, and best, album, Battle Hymns, second album and provides the taped introduction for at least one live album.
Last edited by ben d banana on Sat Dec 17, 2005 3:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

jdcopp
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#78 Post by jdcopp » Tue Nov 29, 2005 1:34 pm

I could not help being struck while watching this film by the similarity between de Hory and Hugh Griffith''s characterization of an art forger in William Wyler's "How To Steal a Million". Given that that film was made about 2 years befroe any of the public revelations of de Hory's forgeries, does anyone know if Wyler or Griffith had any private knowledge of de Hory?

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miless
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#79 Post by miless » Mon Nov 20, 2006 3:56 pm

Gary Graver, cinematographer for F for Fake (as well as hundreds of other films) died on the 16th, he was 68 years old

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Gordon
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#80 Post by Gordon » Mon Nov 20, 2006 4:40 pm

Major bummer. He was instrumental in trying to get The Other Side of the Wind finished and released, so it may be all up to ol' Captain Cravat now.

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Tribe
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Re: 288 F for Fake

#82 Post by Tribe » Fri May 29, 2009 12:25 pm

Interesting topic over at Errol Morris' New York Times Blog (Zoom) regarding the art forger Han van Meegeren and some theoretical/critical discussion about forgery in general. Clearly relevant to the themes developed in Welles' film, I think. Two post so far, first one is here and the second one is here.

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colinr0380
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Re: 288 F for Fake

#83 Post by colinr0380 » Sat May 30, 2009 10:14 am

Tribe wrote:Interesting topic over at Errol Morris' New York Times Blog (Zoom) regarding the art forger Han van Meegeren and some theoretical/critical discussion about forgery in general. Clearly relevant to the themes developed in Welles' film, I think. Two post so far, first one is here and the second one is here.
Interesting articles! That reminded me that A Zed and Two Noughts has a shifty character moving behind the scenes of the main story who was based on van Meegeren (with a female accomplice who often seems like a Vermeer recreation in herself!) Greenaway makes his inspiration for the figure explicit in the commentary for the film.

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Tommaso
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Re: 288 F for Fake

#84 Post by Tommaso » Sun May 31, 2009 5:40 am

colinr0380 wrote: Greenaway makes his inspiration for the figure explicit in the commentary for the film.
Watching "F for Fake" last night, I wondered whether the Welles film might not be seen as a direct inspiration for Greenaway's 'fake' documentaries in general; I'm thinking especially of the way of creating new 'meaning' from assembling shots in different ways in "Vertical Features Remake" and inventing a whole fake backstory for motivating the process; not to speak of a mock documentary like "The Falls" or the re-invention of 20th century history in TLS.

It has of course also been pointed out by other people how much Michael Moore's 'documentaries' rely on techniques exposed by Welles in this film; in this respect, "F for Fake" despite its decade-long neglect might prove to be a film of unexpected (at the time it was made) importance.

JMULL222
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Re: 288 F for Fake

#85 Post by JMULL222 » Wed Sep 29, 2010 2:37 am

Watched this on Netflix stream, don't own the DVD but the transfer was gorgeous and the film preceded by the new Criterion logo, as opposed to the old on the DVD. Possible re release, hopefully Blu?

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#86 Post by Thomas Dukenfield » Fri Nov 05, 2010 5:52 am

ben d banana wrote:Okay, surely someone has mentioned this here before, but today was my first encounter with Manowar's Fighting The World album, featuring one Orson Welles on the track "Defender".
There's a 30 minute or so Manowar doc that was originally released on one of the VHS tapes I think (and re-released on the Hell on Earth III DVD set) where there is mention of this, along with some behind the scene stills (and maybe some footage too, although I can't recall). I think it's probably on Youtube somewhere. As it happens, Christopher Lee will be doing voice work on the next Manowar album (!)

Anyway, depending on what mood I'm in, I might consider F For Fake as my favorite Welles film (in competition with Arkadin, Kane, and Touch of Evil). I think it helped me to really "get" his cinema in totality, what with it being a self-deconstructing documentary (and therefore a deconstruction of Welles' cinema), as well as showing how Welles functions as a cinematic magician of sorts (put vaguely to avoid a long explanation, but if you've seen F For Fake, you may understand what I'm driving at), rather than a director piling on style and bravado for it's own sake (which is what some critics might conclude about his work).

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Re: 288 F for Fake

#87 Post by dad1153 » Fri Jan 21, 2011 6:06 pm

Saw "F for Fake" (on a library DVD after my DVR screwed up a TCM-HD recording) soon after rewatching "Citizen Kane." Makes for an interesting look at the bookend of Welles' directorial career to have concluded (not by his choice) on another winner. An attempt to deconstruct fakery by being fake (though how can the movie be fake when Orson himself tells you beforehand that fakery will be used as truth-telling tools to emphasize its point... WHA!?!?!), "F For Fake" is 88 minutes of breathtaking, non-stop images/sounds and interviews/anecdotes about/from real-life characters (de Hory, Clifford Irving, Picasso and Howard fucking Hughes) that match or are as interesting as Wells saw himself (real-life larger-than-life characters) and his girlfriend (Oja Kodar) in the grand scheme of making a living by deceiving people. A playful devil-may-care attitude, fast-paced editing (a decade before MTV made such fast-paced cuts common, yet again Welles at the forefront of visual storytelling) and the ability to both play by cinema's rules while making up it's own give "F For Fake" the charisma of a once-in-a-lifetime large figure getting away with a slight of hand on his audience without deceiving them (what's the movie's title again?). Or maybe Orson was just happy that, for once in this period of his life, he managed to complete and release an actual movie. I have to watch this again because, on just one viewing, I'm pretty sure I missed half of the good stuff. Even after seeing some of his latter-days work (appearances on "Match Game," TV commercials, the "Transformers" movie, etc.) I have to admit I never thought Welles had any 'IT' left in him after "Touch of Evil" until I saw "F For Fake." It's a delightfully meta-documentary long before the word 'meta' became a pop culture synonym.

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Roger Ryan
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Re: 288 F for Fake

#88 Post by Roger Ryan » Mon Jan 24, 2011 12:18 pm

I'm pleased that the Detroit Institute of Arts screened F FOR FAKE a couple of weeks back to kick off their four-month "Fakes, Forgeries & Mysteries" exhibition.

F FOR FAKE is a brilliantly-realized "essay" film, an approach that Welles returned to repeatedly since his failed IT'S ALL TRUE project in '42. For other examples of this style, see the AROUND THE WORLD series from the 50s along with PORTRAIT OF GINA. Much of Welles' work after F FOR FAKE was done in this style as well but little was finished or released (FILMING OTHELLO, released in '78, was the exception). Welles was very fond of the "essay" approach and was disappointed that audiences didn't take to FAKE the way he hoped they would.

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Re: 288 F for Fake

#89 Post by Cagliostro » Fri Apr 22, 2011 3:40 pm

Regarding The Dreamers footage & the "One Man Band" documentary . . .

Wellesnet posted an excerpt from Orson's script for The Dreamers some time back and having just taken a look it is interesting to note that Welles planned to score the film with music by the French composer Erik Satie, whose work he had used previously to score The Immortal Story. Of course the connection here is that both The Immortal Story and The Dreamers were adaptations from stories by Isak Dinesen. One of the things that has stayed with me since first viewing The Immortal Story was Satie's music. I don't think I've seen it commented on anywhere before but I wonder if Welles had made some association between Dinesen's & Satie's work. Has anyone seen any of the other Dinesen script adaptations Welles worked on? Do they too show "Music by Erik Satie" . . . ?

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Roger Ryan
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Re: 288 F for Fake

#90 Post by Roger Ryan » Sat Apr 23, 2011 7:28 pm

Cagliostro wrote:Regarding The Dreamers footage & the "One Man Band" documentary . . .

Wellesnet posted an excerpt from Orson's script for The Dreamers some time back and having just taken a look it is interesting to note that Welles planned to score the film with music by the French composer Erik Satie, whose work he had used previously to score The Immortal Story. Of course the connection here is that both The Immortal Story and The Dreamers were adaptations from stories by Isak Dinesen. One of the things that has stayed with me since first viewing The Immortal Story was Satie's music. I don't think I've seen it commented on anywhere before but I wonder if Welles had made some association between Dinesen's & Satie's work. Has anyone seen any of the other Dinesen script adaptations Welles worked on? Do they too show "Music by Erik Satie" . . . ?
While it's quite possible that Welles did intend to use Satie for THE DREAMERS, I believe the credits on the Wellesnet page link are compiled by Wellesnet based on information gathered from interviews, etc. In other words, I don't believe Welles notated on his actual script that the music for the film would be by Satie. The same would go for the earlier scripts which were written in the late 60s when Welles was hoping to shoot two additional short films (THE HEROINE, FULL MOON) based on Dinesen's work to accompany THE IMMORTAL STORY. Welles was actually able to shoot for a day on THE HEROINE in 1969 before the financing collapsed! FULL MOON never made it past pre-production.

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Re: 288 F for Fake

#91 Post by Cagliostro » Wed Jul 06, 2011 12:12 pm

Looks like TCM will be showing The Immortal Story in the early hours of Tuesday, August 9th. Run time is listed as 89 minutes. My Italian region 2 runs approximately 60 minutes. Could this playtime be correct?

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Roger Ryan
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Re: 288 F for Fake

#92 Post by Roger Ryan » Wed Jul 06, 2011 2:19 pm

Cagliostro wrote:Looks like TCM will be showing The Immortal Story in the early hours of Tuesday, August 9th. Run time is listed as 89 minutes. My Italian region 2 runs approximately 60 minutes. Could this playtime be correct?
According to IMDb, the "TCM" print is 62 minutes which, as far as I know, is as long as this film ever got and represents Welles' "Director's Cut". Any shorter running time is due to PAL speed-up or a shortening of Welles' initial cut in order to fit it into an hour of television programming with commercials inserted (which is why I believe a 47 min. cut exists).

When you check the on-screen "cable guide" listings, TCM will often simply show the block of time they are devoting to a film (a lot of which are shown as "120 minutes" - the denoted feature will be less than that, but the remaining time is padded out with shorts or promotions). Since THE IMMORTAL STORY is 62 minutes, the time block it would occupy would be 90 minutes...which is darn close to the listed "89 minutes". I'm thinking they will show 62 minutes of THE IMMORTAL STORY and 27 minutes of filler in that time block.

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Re: 288 F for Fake

#93 Post by Donald Brown » Tue Jul 15, 2014 8:11 pm


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Re: 288 F for Fake

#94 Post by vidussoni » Sat Sep 27, 2014 12:50 pm


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Re: 288 F for Fake

#95 Post by zedz » Mon Dec 29, 2014 11:21 pm

Just popping in to say how enjoyable I found the long interview with Welles that was added to the BluRay of this. He's in peak raconteur form (and what must be close to his peak weight as well - oof!) and completely charming throughout.

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Re: 288 F for Fake

#96 Post by Drucker » Tue Jan 27, 2015 5:56 pm

Just went through the blu-ray and the transfer and audio are superb. They do a fantastic job of replicating the print I saw in the theater the other day.

Now I'm going through the Tom Snyder segment, and it almost makes me angry, 12 minutes in, just how misinformed he seems to be. I assume this is what Welles talked about when he said that people spread rumors about him that ruined his reputation. For Snyder to assume that Welles chooses not to live in America, and was "turning his back on America" and the way he talks about Kane as a revered film, so that the only reason Welles is not wildly rich and revered today must have been his own doing, shows how effective the establishment was at destroying his reputation. At first I was mad at Snyder, but now I realize, he's only re-hashing what he must have assumed is true based on rumors.

Sorry to keep posting about Welles all the time. At the end of this week I'll slow down!

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Re: 288 F for Fake

#97 Post by swo17 » Tue Jan 27, 2015 6:03 pm

Sure you will, Peter Bogdanovich.

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Re: 288 F for Fake

#98 Post by hearthesilence » Fri Feb 04, 2022 11:33 pm

Caught the new restoration at MoMA, and it is indeed a major improvement, albeit with some caveats.

Criterion's BD was a hi-def scan of the interpositive, so not surprisingly a fresh scan (presumably 4K?) of the original negative is going to look better and substantially so. The stuff Welles shot himself (or rather what Graver shot for Welles) generally looks pristine with great, crisp detail, and also completely free of blemishes - that really stands out because there are plenty of nicks and scratches that pop up on the Criterion BD.

As mentioned, the stuff Welles did not shoot does not look like it came from the original negative. The fact that this other material wasn't shot in 35mm is also a huge factor. There's a huge difference in texture, like very coarse grain, but it's jarring only in comparison - it really looks fine and it's not overwhelming or distracting. I'm really glad they left the grain alone. The black & white sci-fi footage is going to look crummy obviously, but it plays just fine.

With Welles's 35mm footage, color is rich and the blacks are inky and deep...perhaps too much so. There were a few brief daytime shots where Welles's body seems to turn into a black hole (it brings to mind the Marvel Comic character Cloak, hah), and when he's in his editing room (where the detail elsewhere is perfect and the color very robust), the blacks could very well be crushed.

The color is generally fine, but there are stretches where it feels like there's an artificial yellowing going on in the grading. Most of the time I was able to ignore it but there were moments like when you see a montage of normally white objects (for example paper items) looking unnaturally yellowed. Like it's definitely not the color of, say, aged paper because it looks too uniform and characterless to be the natural color of the object. But it's subtle enough that it probably won't bother most viewers.

No one's commented on the sound, which was done from the original mag track. It's fucking awesome. If you can see this in a great theater, it's worth it just to hear Orson's first words. Thick, rich, deep, very lifelike...it's a DAMN good recording and it sounds awesome. I tried playing the Criterion BD on my hi-fi system and it doesn't compare to what I heard at MoMA. Though you really notice when it's recorded in the studio and when it's recorded on location, and that lack of seamlessness does apply to picture too - the really good shots make the not-first-generation shots or not-35mm shots look all the more "worse." This is especially true for things like the freeze frame cheat of Oja that they used a cutaway towards the end of the movie. (Probably two generations away from the OCN at minimum, the accumulated dirt and previous generation grain is blatantly frozen in air.) So these various shots won't match invisibly - they'll be very noticeable, but not in a way that should ruin the movie or anything, far from it.

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