612 Certified Copy

Discuss DVDs and Blu-rays released by Criterion and the films on them. If it's got a spine number, it's in here. Threads may contain spoilers.
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krnash
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:50 pm

Re: 612 Certified Copy

#101 Post by krnash » Wed May 02, 2012 5:07 pm

Beaver

It would have been thoughtful for Gary to post some Report grabs...

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Gregory
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Re: 612 Certified Copy

#102 Post by Gregory » Wed May 02, 2012 5:20 pm

Agreed.
Other than that I wouldn't say there was much strong differences except in side-by-side comparison. I think it looks very good - probably more accurate to the theatrical but I don't know from personal experience.
Then what's the basis for this speculation? When the differences are this subtle, I'm not sure how effective it is to compare a memory of a theatrical presentation anyway. If it's a toss-up in picture quality, just call it a toss-up, I say.

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Michael Kerpan
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Re: 612 Certified Copy

#103 Post by Michael Kerpan » Wed May 02, 2012 5:25 pm

I couldn't see any meaningful difference between the screenshots of the two versions. The UK version certainly looks quite good when played on my TV.

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matrixschmatrix
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Re: 612 Certified Copy

#104 Post by matrixschmatrix » Thu May 03, 2012 1:17 am

Gregory wrote:Then what's the basis for this speculation? When the differences are this subtle, I'm not sure how effective it is to compare a memory of a theatrical presentation anyway. If it's a toss-up in picture quality, just call it a toss-up, I say.
I did see it in the theater, and the slightly darker Criterion does look a bit more like what I remember, particularly in the up-the-stairway shot. I've watched the AE disc though and I never once thought 'hmm, looks too bright'.

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ptatler
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Re: 612 Certified Copy

#105 Post by ptatler » Tue May 22, 2012 7:23 am

Finished watching the set last night, including THE REPORT, which I found just as enthralling as COPY. It's a devastating film, a sort of "pre-mortem" of a marriage before it finally dissolves. The image and subtitle quality are horrid but I still feel lucky for having seen it at all.

The behind-the-scenes doc and Kiarostami interview are extremely insightful.

Question for anyone who knows more about Kiarostami than me (which is pretty much everyone): why is THE REPORT regarded as his first feature-length film when THE TRAVELER came before?

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Gregory
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Re: 612 Certified Copy

#106 Post by Gregory » Tue May 22, 2012 11:49 am

I think many put the films he made for Kanun (Centre for the Intellectual Development of Children and Young Adults) in a separate category from the work he did after going out to do his own independent productions. It also might have something to do with the length of the The Traveler, though personally I consider anything that long to be a full-fledged feature.

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ellipsis7
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Re: 612 Certified Copy

#107 Post by ellipsis7 » Tue May 22, 2012 12:01 pm

AK also has EXPERIENCE (1973, 60 mins) along with THE WEDDING DRESS (1976, 53 mins)which are comparable to THE TRAVELLER (1974, 72 mins), as medium length pieces, but the classification of his films up to TASTE OF CHERRY (1997) is generally as follows;
FEATURES & Shorts

1970 Bread and Alley
1972 Breaktime
1973 The Experience
1974 THE TRAVELLER
1975 Two Solutions For One Problem
1975 So Can I
1976 The Wedding Suit
1976 The Colours
1977 THE REPORT
1978 Solution
1979 Case No.1 Case No.2
1980 Toothache
1981 Regularly or Irregularly
1982 The Chorus
1983 Fellow Citizen
1984 FIRST GRADERS
1987 WHERE IS MY FRIEND’S HOUSE
1990 HOMEWORK
1990 CLOSE-UP
1992 AND LIFE GOES ON
1994 THROUGH THE OLIVE TREES
1997 TASTE OF CHERRY

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zedz
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Re: 612 Certified Copy

#108 Post by zedz » Tue May 22, 2012 3:48 pm

Yeah, I don't think 60 minutes has generally been considered feature-length since the 1930s, but 72 minutes has never not been feature length. Though a lot of Kiarostami's pre-breakthrough films don't comfortably fit into western theatrical models of short / feature. Nevertheless, I've always understood the conventional division to be as ellipsis posted, and haven't noticed The Report being called his first feature.

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Gregory
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Re: 612 Certified Copy

#109 Post by Gregory » Tue May 22, 2012 3:56 pm

I've often seen The Traveler called his "first feature" or "debut feature" and I noticed that the filmography at Senses of Cinema distinguished between "short features" and "features" for some reason, thus my suggestion that duration has something to do with this. I guess "debut" could have the sense of not necessarily being the first but being the feature that introduced him to an international audience.

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zedz
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Re: 612 Certified Copy

#110 Post by zedz » Tue May 22, 2012 4:19 pm

When you're talking about non-theatrical forms like educational or television films, "feature" is a pretty amorphous term, I guess.

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HistoryProf
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Re: Certified Copy (Abbas Kiarostami, 2010)

#111 Post by HistoryProf » Tue May 29, 2012 9:06 pm

Highway 61 wrote:Now, as for whether or not he makes the train, I presume that's intentionally ambiguous. I believe he said it left at nine, and then we hear the clock tower ringing, but I can't remember how many times it struck.
For what it's worth...he does say he needs to be at the station by 9 and then when he goes into the bathroom the church bells chime 8 times, indicating it's an hour away (and i believe a half hour drive)...whether that makes a difference to anyone is up to them I guess, but thought i'd clarify in case anyone was still wondering. I watched this last night via netflix and am still not sure where I sit with it. I think I need to let it simmer a bit and I'd like to watch it again via blu ray. I was not so emotionally blown away as many here were I guess, but at the same time have thought about it quite a bit today and have found myself questioning certain things.

One question:
SpoilerShow
when they finally reach the Tuscan cafe where the owner mistakes him for her husband, right before he is telling the story of the woman and child who never walked together that he saw every day, and then later saw at the fake statue of David w/ the mother talking to him passionately about the statue. Binoche becomes tearful and says "it sounds familiar", leading me to suppose that he is talking about her and her son (it was also in Florence, where she says she lived five years earlier when asked by the cafe owner). I realize there's nothing definitive in the film, but am I alone here? Any thoughts on the significance of that story? It seemed particularly important since it is the point at which everything shifts and they become husband and wife for the remainder of the film.

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knives
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Re: 612 Certified Copy

#112 Post by knives » Wed May 30, 2012 12:13 am

In watching it again I think that was Kiarostami slyly showing all of his cards. The film seems to be talking largely about itself since Kiarostami has over time so closely identified himself with location a move makes him a different artist and in trying to do a European film Certified Copy becomes just that. So I think with that story Kiarostami is saying that he saw the European cinema which gave him an idea and now that he is in Europe he will finally in a way which isn't assured (hence the story about Marie) he will try to see if he can make a European film. The reveal that Binoche was the reason for the book gives reason for why they become husband and wife for the rest of the film relating to what I just said. Of course I could be reading into things too much.

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HistoryProf
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Re: 612 Certified Copy

#113 Post by HistoryProf » Wed May 30, 2012 11:52 am

so you agree it was Binoche that he was watching 5 years earlier?

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ellipsis7
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Re: 612 Certified Copy

#114 Post by ellipsis7 » Wed May 30, 2012 12:21 pm

Guardian interview with AK @ Cannes, explaining "The world is my workshop."

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knives
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Re: 612 Certified Copy

#115 Post by knives » Wed May 30, 2012 1:11 pm

HistoryProf wrote:so you agree it was Binoche that he was watching 5 years earlier?
Yes, though I might change my mind if I were to watch the film again. I came to an entirely different conclusion the first time around.

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zedz
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Re: 612 Certified Copy

#116 Post by zedz » Wed May 30, 2012 3:52 pm

HistoryProf wrote:so you agree it was Binoche that he was watching 5 years earlier?
I think that's definitely raised as a possibility, but I don't think the film is about concealing a solution to the narrative puzzle, but rather than teasing out a myriad of possibilities.

Spoilers below, I guess, though my approach to the film as noted above sort of precludes spoilers.

Even if you accept that premise (and you're invited to, even though Kiarostami stops short of making it conclusive), you can pursue that particular 'discovery' down a number of different lines of enquiry. Does Binoche know that she was the inspiration? (Presumably, if she's read the book.) Does Shimell? (Presumably, unless he's got a terrible memory for faces.) And how much of that interchange is inflected by their role-playing (e.g. pretending that a mere whimsical supposition is true, or pretending that something they've both realised from the outset is a new discovery?)

The possibility I like to tease out is that Binoche is the wife of the Shimell's Italian translator (i.e. the certified copyist), based on her behaviour and where she sits at the opening talk, her familiarity with the just-published book, and her role as official escort / tour guide. This option creates a whole new dimension of doubles and reflections, but again, it's not something that can be definitively confirmed, just proposed and toyed with.

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knives
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Re: 612 Certified Copy

#117 Post by knives » Wed May 30, 2012 4:21 pm

That's a fascinating interpretation that makes the switch in Shimell's character from speaking only English to speaking Italian (or was it French, damn terrible memory) in the second half all the more important though (and I think we're in agreement here) that going with the premise of the film what Shimell becomes a copy of isn't important as the imitation is as good as the original.

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zedz
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Re: 612 Certified Copy

#118 Post by zedz » Wed May 30, 2012 5:04 pm

And the greatness of the film, for me, is that all of the twists and games in the film can be generalized to real-world relationships. Aren't we constantly mutually pretending that certain unfortunate events didn't happen? Aren't we often trying to emulate a different, better, non-existent self? Isn't our social behaviour generally more about meeting the needs of a role, and delivering a convincing performance, than about expressing how we really feel at that particular moment?

Unless you're psychotic, of course.

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HistoryProf
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Re: 612 Certified Copy

#119 Post by HistoryProf » Wed May 30, 2012 9:56 pm

knives wrote:That's a fascinating interpretation that makes the switch in Shimell's character from speaking only English to speaking Italian (or was it French, damn terrible memory) in the second half all the more important though (and I think we're in agreement here) that going with the premise of the film what Shimell becomes a copy of isn't important as the imitation is as good as the original.
He switches to French after the cafe scene...and then randomly goes back and forth between French and English from there on out.

I guess I was curious about that particular moment where he speaks of the inspiration for the book because that feels like the fulcrum on which it all shifts into a new dimension. I'm not trying to make any particular narrative work, but rather trying to pin down my own interpretation of the 2nd half and their dance that ends in the hotel. I like the idea of her being the translator's wife, except I don't see why she'd need to write her number on her own card to give the author were that the case....surely he would have been able to give that information himself. I think she had a reserved spot simply because she was the town's resident antique dealer and art historian. I also didn't consider whether she knew she was the inspiration before his talk - it seems clear when she asks him the question in the cafe that she didn't know what was coming...hence the emotional response.

All in all the more I think about this the more fascinating it becomes. I was a bit nonplussed by the film at the time...but I'm becoming more intrigued and intent on revisiting it as the days pass.

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Kokomo Blues
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Re: 612 Certified Copy

#120 Post by Kokomo Blues » Fri Jul 27, 2012 8:54 am

HistoryProf wrote:
knives wrote:That's a fascinating interpretation that makes the switch in Shimell's character from speaking only English to speaking Italian (or was it French, damn terrible memory) in the second half all the more important though (and I think we're in agreement here) that going with the premise of the film what Shimell becomes a copy of isn't important as the imitation is as good as the original.
He switches to French after the cafe scene...and then randomly goes back and forth between French and English from there on out.
I wouldn't say it was random, it's an indication of how closely they are engaged (or not) in each other.

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ShellOilJunior
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Re: 612 Certified Copy

#121 Post by ShellOilJunior » Wed Jun 24, 2015 8:41 am

Iran's Certified Copy ban is finally lifted

Binoche's dress is no longer too "skimpy".

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hearthesilence
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Re: 612 Certified Copy

#122 Post by hearthesilence » Wed Jun 24, 2015 9:27 am

Forgot the film, but the news reminds me of some joke about allowing women to show off their beauty, then making enough progress to criticize female objectification.

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The Fanciful Norwegian
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Re: 612 Certified Copy

#123 Post by The Fanciful Norwegian » Thu Jun 25, 2015 7:27 pm

ShellOilJunior wrote:Iran's Certified Copy ban is finally lifted

Binoche's dress is no longer too "skimpy".
That's because they blurred her chest.

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dadaistnun
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Re: 612 Certified Copy

#124 Post by dadaistnun » Thu Apr 25, 2019 10:15 am

Funny how seeing a film for the first time less than ten years after its release feels more late-to-the-game than catching up with established canon decades after the fact.

The sheer mutability/fluidity of the characters and their relationships with one another in this film is exciting as any thriller, and yet the tone and pace are so leisurely and introspective. Agree with those above who said that this is not a puzzle to be solved; rather, it's more an ongoing conversation about the nature of love and relationships to be puzzled over. Perceptions within a relationship shift over time. It's like light refracting through a piece of warped glass, changing form depending on the intensity of the light as well as one's vantage point. It allows for multiple valid perspectives simultaneously. This approach, coupled with the wonderful performances by Binoche and Shimell, gives an emotional resonance that's still reverberating in my head days later. It's like the decay of those church bells, ringing so incessantly in the latter portion of the film.

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