5, 185-188 The 400 Blows, The Adventures of Antoine Doinel

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Mr Sausage
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Re: 5 The 400 Blows

#126 Post by Mr Sausage » Fri Aug 03, 2012 9:01 pm

Not to mention it undercuts the whole dynamic of the movie, so that the only person apparently not functioning normally is Antoine. So we have a sick boy screwing up a normal life instead of a bright, functioning boy being failed regularly and struggling to maintain himself in a society that doesn't seem to want to expend the necessary effort on him. If Antoine is the problem, tho', why did the film feel it necessary to show everyone around him behaving poorly?

Also: taking many things and saying they are all one thing = reductionism. Explaining the entirety of a complex system, such as a person's life, through only a single idea = reductionism. Giving all of Antoine's different feelings and behaviours and interactions a single unvarying explanation = reductionism.

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Re: 5 The 400 Blows

#127 Post by FilmFanSea » Sat Aug 04, 2012 1:56 am

matrixschmatrix wrote:In Doniel's case, it's reductive because it presumes some reason for the behavior we see that isn't readily apparent in the situations and places we see. I mean, it's possible that he behaves the way he does because he has schizophrenia, non-Hodgkin's lymphoma, and a bad case of the crabs, but there's nothing in the movie that really lends any credence to the argument.
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Wish I had written that.

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Re: 5 The 400 Blows

#128 Post by tenia » Sat Aug 04, 2012 5:36 am

I spent the whole movie thinking "Come on ! It's just a kid !", feeling very poorly for him, because I really felt he is treated extremely unfair.
I still think Antoine is a kid, not really well behaving, but just as a lot of kids do, and that most of the adults are the one that should go through an adivsor about how to handle him, because IMO, they just don't know how to deal with him, very simply.

Thinking back of how my parents have been educated, teaching / education was very strict at the time, and this is what Truffaut have been dealing with : the consequences on such kid of such a harsh environment.

If Antoine were transported to 2012, nothing would happen to him. We would just say he's more a difficult child than an easy one, but that's it.

In fact, looking back at this, a lot of Jack's action as a child in The Tree of Life reminds me of Antoine's. But nobody would say such things about Malick's kid character.

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Re: 5 The 400 Blows

#129 Post by movielocke » Sun Aug 05, 2012 4:40 am

tachyonEvan wrote:Something I haven’t seen discussed, and am interested in (disclaimer: The 400 Blows is the only “Doinel film” I’ve seen) is that both times I’ve seen this movie, Antoine struck me as either a textbook “gifted kid” and/or is clearly suffering from ADHD. I know the character is semiautobiographical, but some Googling of Truffaut and ADD/ADHD didn’t really yield any results. What’s interesting, though, is how accurately he portrays a kid so out of place – based on my own experiences/those around me, a lot of Antoine’s decision-making and behavior would be explained by either/both, and Truffaut (and more accurately, Jean-Pierre Léaud) nailed it to a T – from the way he holds his head in certain scenes, to a lot of the character’s mannerisms, and dialogue. I’m just not sure whether or not that was his intention, which makes things especially interesting. I’m not sure how familiar others on this board are with gifted education or behavior of kids with attention deficit disorders., but it’s an aspect of the movie that I absolutely couldn’t ignore.
This strikes me as a whole bunch of confirmation bias laced with selection bias all brought about by a big helping of projection. Are you sure you're not just projecting your own impressions of yourself onto Doinel?

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Re: 5 The 400 Blows

#130 Post by Michael » Sun Aug 05, 2012 5:26 am

matrixschmatrix wrote:In Doniel's case, it's reductive because it presumes some reason for the behavior we see that isn't readily apparent in the situations and places we see. I mean, it's possible that he behaves the way he does because he has schizophrenia, non-Hodgkin's lymphoma, and a bad case of the crabs, but there's nothing in the movie that really lends any credence to the argument. Interpreting what we do see of his behavior as evidence of a disorder, rather than a series of reasonable responses to given stimuli, reduces the impact of those stimuli and the degree to which his responses are entirely understandable and presumably what any bright, soulful child would feel and do.
Most excellent. YES! :D

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Re: 5, 185-188 The Adventures of Antoine Doinel

#131 Post by LQ » Thu Oct 11, 2012 11:29 am

I have a mild observation/quasi-question after revisiting The 400 Blows last night: The Doinel family goes out to the movies to see Paris Nous Appartient...but that won't be released theatrically until 1961, right? I guess that was a vote of confidence and encouragement on Truffaut's part?

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Re: 5, 185-188 The Adventures of Antoine Doinel

#132 Post by knives » Thu Oct 11, 2012 1:06 pm

Probably.

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Re: 5, 185-188 The Adventures of Antoine Doinel

#133 Post by MichaelB » Thu Oct 11, 2012 1:46 pm

From a practical perspective, it was probably much easier to clear the rights to an unreleased and possibly unfinished film.

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Re: 5, 185-188 The Adventures of Antoine Doinel

#134 Post by zedz » Fri Oct 12, 2012 8:57 am

I don't think rights were much of an issue, actually. I doubt godard cleared the rights for his similar reference to 'The Harder They Fall' in 'Breathless'. Rivette's film was famously long in the making (I think it was actually scheduled to be the first feature by one of the Cahiers gang, so the allusion was probably a good-natured needle from Truffaut.

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Re: 5, 185-188 The Adventures of Antoine Doinel

#135 Post by domino harvey » Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:29 am

Though that's just the poster-- imagine a Godard film without lifted visuals! Seems like he'd have been harder pressed to explain his purloining of audio from Whirlpool and Westbound in the theatre scenes...

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Re: 5, 185-188 The Adventures of Antoine Doinel

#136 Post by cinemartin » Fri Oct 12, 2012 12:29 pm

I thought Godard dubbed his own audio into the Westbound scene? Him reciting some Aragon poem or something?

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The 400 BLOWS ON BLU RAY - ADVICE WANTED

#137 Post by markpsf » Sat Jan 05, 2013 1:21 pm

I own the Doinel set. The 400 Blows is one of my favorite films. Is the Blu Ray so superior that it's worth buying by itself, even tho I have the film in the Doinel set? Your opinion?

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Re: 5, 185-188 The 400 Blows, The Adventures of Antoine Doin

#138 Post by dad1153 » Sat Jan 05, 2013 11:40 pm

^^^ How anal are you about video quality? Years ago I thought if it wasn't in Blu-ray or high-def (on cable TV) I didn't want to see it. Now, as I'm about to turn 40 and have mellowed, my Criterion DVDs of "M," "Late Spring," "Videodrome" and "Seven Samurai" look fine on my flat screens and I don't have a burning desire to upgrade them to BD (though I wouldn't mind upgrades to Blu if someone gives them to me as gifts... wink, wink). I own both the BD and the DVD of "400 Blows" (the latter from the Doinel set). Is the BD better looking than the DVD? Yes, enough that you can tell the difference. Would I keep the Blu over the DVD? No, because the former doesn't have "Antoine and Colette" and that's too important an entry into the series to ignore. I'm lucky, I have both the BD and DVD and I'm keeping them (the former for the picture and the latter for "Antoine and Colette") but if I had to keep only one I'd swallow hard and give up the Blu.

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Re: The 400 BLOWS ON BLU RAY - ADVICE WANTED

#139 Post by ShellOilJunior » Wed Feb 06, 2013 8:21 am

markpsf wrote:I own the Doinel set. The 400 Blows is one of my favorite films. Is the Blu Ray so superior that it's worth buying by itself, even tho I have the film in the Doinel set? Your opinion?
Yes. Absolutely. I own the Doinel set, too. I haven't touched the set in years because I'm hoping it gets a blu-ray upgrade soon.

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Re: 5, 185-188 The 400 Blows, The Adventures of Antoine Doin

#140 Post by giovannii84 » Sat Apr 06, 2013 12:06 am

I notice the original Criterion DVD release says : "Additional commentaries by Robert Lachenay, and co-writer Marcel Moussy", whereas the re-release just says: "Commentaries by Robert Lachenay".

Is this a new commentary track, or have the Marcel Moussy components just been deleted?

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Re: 5, 185-188 The 400 Blows, The Adventures of Antoine Doin

#141 Post by cdnchris » Sat Apr 06, 2013 12:30 am

giovannii84 wrote:Hi

I notice the original Criterion DVD release says : "Additional commentaries by Robert Lachenay, and co-writer Marcel Moussy", whereas the re-release just says: "Commentaries by Robert Lachenay".

Is this a new commentary track, or have the Marcel Moussy components just been deleted?

Regards

John
It's a new track. It's in French with English subtitles. The original was also in French but lacked English subs. Moussy and Lachenay each covered one half of the track.

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Re: 5, 185-188 The 400 Blows, The Adventures of Antoine Doin

#142 Post by giovannii84 » Sat Apr 06, 2013 12:31 am

cdnchris wrote:
giovannii84 wrote:Hi

I notice the original Criterion DVD release says : "Additional commentaries by Robert Lachenay, and co-writer Marcel Moussy", whereas the re-release just says: "Commentaries by Robert Lachenay".

Is this a new commentary track, or have the Marcel Moussy components just been deleted?

Regards

John
It's a new track. It's in French with English subtitles. The original was also in French but lacked English subs. Moussy and Lachenay each covered one half of the track.
Thanks. So in other words, unless you understood French, the original commentary was pointless?

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Re: 5, 185-188 The 400 Blows, The Adventures of Antoine Doin

#143 Post by willoneill » Sat Apr 06, 2013 12:55 am

giovannii84 wrote:Thanks. So in other words, unless you understood French, the original commentary was pointless?
Oui.

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Re: 5, 185-188 The 400 Blows, The Adventures of Antoine Doin

#144 Post by ryannichols7 » Sun Apr 07, 2013 7:12 pm

the Stonehill commentary is pretty fantastic anyway, I'm not sure how much more the French track could add.

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Re: 5, 185-188 The 400 Blows, The Adventures of Antoine Doin

#145 Post by manicsounds » Sun Apr 07, 2013 8:19 pm

Speaking of unsubbed commentaries, remember the US dvd of Amelie also had an unsubbed French commentary by Jeunet? Was that ever English subbed on a later release?

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Re: 5, 185-188 The 400 Blows, The Adventures of Antoine Doin

#146 Post by colinr0380 » Mon Apr 08, 2013 12:56 pm

The original MGM Region 1 release of Y Tu Mamá También also forgot to subtitle it's commentary too! (Another reason to hope that Criterion gets around to updating that film at some point this decade, even though the UK DVD has the commentary with subtitles)

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Re: 5, 185-188 The 400 Blows, The Adventures of Antoine Doin

#147 Post by AnamorphicWidescreen » Wed May 29, 2013 10:52 am

Just watched The 400 Blows on the Criterion Collection DVD, and was very impressed (I had seen the film before, but I don't think it was the Criterion version). In any case, superb, clean print.

This was definitely one of the most moving, poignant films I've ever seen. Brilliant portrait of a kid growing up, with all of the difficulties going along with this. Also really enjoyed the time & place; late 1950's Paris was as much of a character in the film as Antoine and Rene. I've always enjoyed urban settings, and this was one of the best portraits of a city from this time period that I've seen.

Though the film was a drama, there were some amusing moments:

- The scene when the Antoine & Rene were trying to "sell" the stolen typewriter to that guy on the street, and then he tried to steal it from them ;)

- The sequence when the small children were put into a fenced area on the grounds of the juvenile facility, presumably to "protect" them from the wild delinquents - LOL.

And, the end was fantastic; I've always liked uncertain endings in film, which I think makes them more interesting & leaves them open to interpretation. In this case, it brings up some questions: Did Antoine eventually get captured & go back to the juvenile facility, or did he sucessfully escape and end up on the streets of Paris or another city? Obviously, he didn't go back to live with his parents. In any case, as far as I'm concerned this was a perfect ending to the film, and, though I was left wondering what happened, IMHO it didn't need any sequels or explanations. It's a powerful movie that should be left to stand on it's own.

That being said, I have seen all of the other Antoine Doniel films in the series a while back (re: the 200X Criterion Collection set), i.e. Stolen Kisses, Bed and Board, etc. I found all of them dull, and they pale in comparison to the brilliance of The 400 Blows. The only lasting image I have of any of them is a scene when Antoine's "job" was to change the color of flowers, which he did using some kind of strange device :roll: I guess I felt that Antoine as a kid was more interesting than Antoine as an adult...


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Re: 5, 185-188 The 400 Blows, The Adventures of Antoine Doin

#149 Post by knives » Wed Jan 15, 2014 5:48 pm

At this point you've got to assume there is a rights issue with the sequels at this point, right?

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Re: 5, 185-188 The 400 Blows, The Adventures of Antoine Doin

#150 Post by Zot! » Wed Jan 15, 2014 6:05 pm

Even the short sequel that appears on the DVD is still missing. I expect this has to be a toppermost earner for them however, so the set is perhaps still forthcoming.

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